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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 12, 2014 @ 06:40 AM  

Hiya Markku,

I stapled the upper part, where it is over the spar, stapling into the spar.
On the rest of it I put two old gel-cell 12volt batteries, with a gallon can of MEK balancing on the top, and left it all for 48 hours.
Unfortunately I left my phone at home that day, so I don't have any photos :-(

Yours, Bob

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Saturday, December 13, 2014 @ 06:41 PM  

I've spent the past couple of days putting two coats of varnish on the outer wing panels and letting them fully dry.

Meanwhile I've been trying to get rid of the final remnants of oil stains on the forward fuselage and left wing leading-edge.
Somebody said 'leach it out with MEK & rags, with cling film over the top to prevent evaporation.'

Paul H-S gave me some specially absorbent paper towel things to do the same.

An American boat-builders' forum reccommends naptha and diatomacious earth.

My son James uses a Swiss product: K2R, on the teak deck of 'his' super yacht.

So I'm doing all these things.

The MEK & rags got rid of the slippery, greasy feel, but still left a lightened stain.

Paul's magic absorbent paper stuff & MEK came off with light brown stains, suggesting more oil was removed.

As reccommended, I scrubbed in a paste of he MEK & diatomacios earth with a nail brush, thus:

That dried into a hard, white crust, but didn't seem to remove much more oil, so I did the same thing again with a sloppy paste of naptha (lighter fuel) and the d. earth.
That seems to have turned a little brown, so it may be having more effect.

I'll know more tomorrow.

Yours, Bob

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Tony
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Posted Sunday, December 14, 2014 @ 09:36 AM  

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Markku
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Posted Tuesday, December 16, 2014 @ 07:48 AM  

Hi Bob
I was informed that the only way to get off the oil stains is to replace the contaminated wood or plywood with a new one, luckily I didn't have much oil damages, but a lot of other types......
Markku

[Edit by Markku on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 @ 07:49 AM]

milnerd
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Posted Thursday, December 18, 2014 @ 04:41 PM  

Bob,

One thing that you may consider for pulling the oil out of the plywood is one of the TCE (Trichloroethylene) replacements. I work in the Industrial Gas industry for Linde (originally for BOC Gases that Linde acquired a few years ago). We use these products routinely for degreasing components in Oxygen service. They dissolve all the oils and greases and then evaporate. Here in the US ZEP makes a product called Aerosolve II that is typical of what we use. Not the best stuff for your health or the environment but then an explosion because Oxygen comes into contact with a hydrcarbon is not a pretty outcome either!

I would not be surprised if you could not walk into a BOC Gases Welding supply store in the UK and find that they carry it. You would need to test whether the stuff has any effect on the plywood glue. My guess is that it will evaporate before it can do any harm. It is low viscosity and should wick down into the wood as far as the oil has got (most likely only the top layer of ply down to the Resorcinol that the layers of ply are glued together with.

Best regards,

Dave

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 04:52 AM  

Thank you very much Dave,

I've finished that phase now, using MEK & lighter fluid (naptha) and the wing is all varnished, but I'll remember your advice for future projects.
And yes, the oil only seems to permeate the top ply layer.

Thank you also Markku.
I will reply in more detail when I have a little time.
Meanwhile, I have been wrestling with another problem...

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 04:59 AM  

Oratex UL600 is an unusual material, unlike any I've encountered before. While it is said to be a polyester fabric, just like Ceconite, Diatex or Polyfiber, but already impregnated with polyurethane ('two-pack') paint, and it is clearly woven, that weave is extremely fine so we should probably describe it in terms of 'derniers', lke stockings. It looks and handles more like a thin film of PVC with a weave embossed into it, as often used to cover model aeroplanes.
It is very light, thin and slippery. It blows away easily.
Nevertheless it is extremely strong in tension, although not too resistant to punctures and cuts with sharp-edged tools, when it fairly easily rips along the warp or weft.

There is a comprehensive instruction manual on line in pdf, and there are several articles, including one in Kitplanes. There are also some video clips on YouTube, a few of them in languages other than English, but still completely understandable.

Better still, British importer Paul Hendry-Smith of TLAC, Little Snoring, gave pal John Watkins and myself a four-hour tutorial including hands-on work. The straightforward application of odourless water-based glue is simplicity itself. Ironing the fabric in place to activate the glue is just as easy. Shrinking it with a heat gun is a quick pleasure.

Paul did show us how to remove wrinkles and folds, saying, 'Never try to shrink a wrinkle. Heat the glue to soften it and then shrink the fabric beside the blemish to pull it flat.'
My notes say, 'Never wrink a shrinkle.'

He showed us how the fabric can be warmed and stretched around the curves of fins, rudders etc, recounting that Oratex inventor Sigfried can cover an entire light bulb in the stuff without it wrinkling.

However, we didn't work on concave surfaces, so the first part I covered was the aileron cut-outs. They were easy!

The fabric comes in rolls 1.854 metres wide (just over six feet).

I worked out a scheme on graph paper to best utilise the 24 metre length I'd bought. Rather than try to cover a whole upper or lower wing panel at once with one long 5.5 metre sheet overlapping at the leading- and trailing-edges, I decided to use several smaller pieces that would be easier to handle solo in a breezy hangar, joining them chord-wise.
There would be four pairs of symmetrical components:
The tips.
The aileron area between ribs one and nine.
The spoiler area.
The inner wing.
And one underside centre-section.

I soon saw that the compound-curved wing-tips would be a real challenge, so I decided to do them next, before starting on the bigger areas. Unfortunately that didn't work so well.

At my first attempt, I painted glue on all the fabric and the tips as far as the inboard edges of the first ribs. Then I ironed the middle of my measured sheet of fabric (with adequate excess) around the outer edge of the right wing-tip, to give me some purchase to pull against. Here it is, with heat gun and felt smoothing pad.

Then I heated and pulled, heated and pulled until it looked like this.

Remember, the wing is upside-down, the fabric is nice and smooth on the wing's comparatively flat top surface (underneath here) but I could not stretch it enough to remove these wrinkles on this compound curved lower surface.

So I sent these photos to Paul and asked his advice.

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 05:15 AM  

Paul said, 'Start on the top, heat it and stretch it and pull it down over the tip and then shrink the wrinkles out of that. Use the silicone-coated paper to prevent it sticking to the glue until you want it to.'

I went to the left tip. Holding the heat gun in one hand, the fabric in another, the felt smoothing pad in another and the silicone paper in my teeth, I braced the wing from sliding across the floor with one knee while kneeling on the other.
Luckily there was nobody within earshot!

I got it all nicely smoothed out on the upper surface (underside here) and curved over three-quarters of one tip.

Then, pulling from the mid-chord outwards, I managed to get wrid of most of the rinkles, but was still stuck with one fairly big one in mid-chord, a thin, wide one around the trailing-edge and a right bunch of glued-together rubbish under the leading-edge, thus:

More photos to Paul and another phone call.

'Ah, no, if you're going to try to cover the whole tip with a single piece, you need to shape it first over the dry tip before applying glue.
'You have to heat it and stretch it into a sort of bucket shape around the wing-tip before applying the glue and glueing' says Paul.
'I know it shrinks by up to 18 per cent, but how much does it stretch?' I ask.
'Oh heaps. Maybe 25 per cent.'
'What temperature do I use?'
'As much as you need.'

My buddy John and I heaved and sweated, me pulling the fabric with the best grip I could muster, and John running the heat gun back and forth around the tip, careful as the manual cautioned not to exceed 180*C over a wooden surface. All we achieved was pushing the wing along the floor on its integral stand and a slightly wrinkled sheet of Oratex!

I took home the heat gun, fabric panels and some offcut strips.

The manual says its strength is degraded above 200*C, so I put a 70cm (2+ foot) strip one inch wide in the vice, heated it and pulled. I held the heat gun against the fabric and ran it back and forth. I started with 100*C and increased it in increments of 20*C, pulling hard on the free end until a stretch happened.

It remained static.

I pulled harder and increased the heat.
At 350*C I finally smelled burning and it snapped into two!

So now I suspect that, like any other fabric, it only stretches on the bias.
I realise I was being too ambitious for a novice.
Tomorrow I shall neaten off the right tip and cover the left tip with two pieces of fabric because I don't have any more time for learning or experimentation.

If, at the end, I have enough fabric left over, I shall try again with two more pieces cut on the bias, and attempt to make a second layer at the tips of a single piece each side. It won't hurt, there is always abrasion damage on the wing-tips, and the pods will be obscuring it all anyway.

Thus we learn!

Yours, Bob

[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 05:17 AM]

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 05:27 AM  

These should give you the flavour of where we're working. It's pretty chilly, but at least we have lighting after the sun has set.

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 11:01 AM  

Here is the finished tip's undersurface, after glueing down the folds and generally cleaning it up.

This is the upper surface:

Close-up it's pretty ugly, but I should emphasise that I'm neither artist nor artisan. I'm only a pilot, and I live to fly my Fournier. I've been unable to do that for more than two years now, so my priority is to get it flying again as soon as possible. Of secondary importance is trying to make it a bit lighter. Cosmetics (prettiness) are way down my list of requirements.

A two-piece method seemed to work better. It's not pretty, but it is done.

This is the first sheet, heated, stretched and pulled to get out the wrinkles and undulations.

I have realised that this glue becomes tacky when heated with the hot air gun up to about 80*C, and the fabric can be pulled around on it. Once pressure is applied together with heat (by an iron) I guess the little microballons filled with hardener in suspension in the glue pop, hardening the glue and making it impossible to shift.
So I ironed down the central upper (as seen here) three square inches, then used the heat gun to pull and stretch out from that point. I wish I could show a picture, but with the heat gun in one hand, the fabric in the other and the felt smoothing pad in my teeth, I have no way of taking a photo.

Now here it is, roughly trimmed before ironing.

And this is the finished (underside) tip.

Now for the upper surface (which is underneath right now). This should be fun!

Yours, Bob

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

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Posted Friday, December 19, 2014 @ 01:23 PM    YIM

Bob,

I think you are on the right track. Certainly with "conventional" dacron covering, pre-shrinking the fabric around compound curves before you glue it down is key. The real experts don't use bias tape at all, preferring to pre-shrink the fabic, sometimes using cardboard backing.

Good luck!

Steve

Jorgen
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Posted Sunday, December 28, 2014 @ 07:22 PM  

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Grimstead

Hi Donald,

Notice red jumper & hat to match nose!

Yours, Bob

Quite Bob,
this time of year maybe you could ask the advice of Randolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer? %)

Season Greetings from the Swedish Fournieteer squadron, a bit spread out though; Roland is in Thailand and I'm in Texas. Good Luck when you start up as temperatures get higher and do keep us posted on your progress.

May the 4s be with you/ Jörgen

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Tuesday, January 6, 2015 @ 06:17 PM  

The upper surface (that's underneath here remember) was a bit of a struggle, but I ended up actually getting the material fairly flat there -- although it looks an awful mess at the end.

It looks a lot better when roughly trimmed.

...and more or less acceptable after final trimming.

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, February 5, 2015 @ 09:17 PM  

Hi guys, I'm sorry I haven't posted on this topic for a while. i've just been busy living life and doing the re-covering.
It's coming along nicely, and since the weather's been better recently I've been taking advantage of the sunlight to see what I'm doing and work on it outside my hangar.

Yesterday I put more Oratex on 'WGN's wing on its trailer outside my hangar. On next Sunday's Top Gear you might just glimpse it in the background as the star in the reasonably priced car finishes his run and Jeremy Clarkson announces "And across the line!"

They were using the silver Liana, so presumably it's a Formula One driver.
Certainly he knew what he was doing; he was really tanking around the track.

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Roger.Camp
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Posted Friday, February 6, 2015 @ 01:45 PM    YIM

It was Daniel Riccardo evidently.

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It takes 1.460 bolts to build an aircraft and 1 nut to spread it over the landscape

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Posted Friday, February 6, 2015 @ 03:36 PM    YIM

The track looks dry too. Should be a fun episode, especially if he beats Lewis Hamilton's time
dannparks
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Posted Friday, February 13, 2015 @ 04:14 AM  

Very interesting covering process, Bob. I look forward to seeing details on completing the rest of the project. And, Ricciardo did beat Lewis -- and was all smiles as usual.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, February 13, 2015 @ 08:04 AM  

Yes it was a great episode.

Will Smith was doing the driving this week and he's always an entertaining interviewee, so this weekend's episode should be at least equally good.

I apologise for my tardiness in posting on this thread. I have obviously been concentrating on the actual process, and then on reassembling my poor little aeroplane.

I will try and make time this weekend to sit down and type a few captions to the many photos I've taken.

Yours Bob

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

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Posted Wednesday, March 4, 2015 @ 01:26 PM    YIM

All,

On valued advice, Bob will not be posting any information on the forum concerning G-AWGN for a while. Once the unfortunate legal matters he is dealing with have been resolved, however, no doubt Bob will catch us up.

For obvious reasons, there should be no discussion of those legal matters on the form please.

Steve

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Tuesday, April 26, 2016 @ 05:41 PM  

I have just realised that I never finished writing up the re-covering process. It is very straightforward. First I figured out how much Oratex I needed by drawing the wing to scale on a piece of graph paper.

Apart from the tricky wingtips, the actual process is really easy. Having got the (admittedly rather expensive) fabric, I traced out the ribs on the back of each piece and painted the water-based glue only on to the areas where it would abut the ribs and ply skin. That saves a lot of money in glue of course. Then I painted the glue on to the pre-roughened wood. I used cheap foam 'brushes' rather than proper bristle brushes. The only important thing is not to get bubbles, dust or brush marks in the glue, otherwise this shows up afterwards through the very thin fabric.

The glue doesn't take long to dry, only twenty minutes or so — maybe half an hour in really low temperatures. Then you lay the fabric over the wing bays you want to cover and clip it in place with clothes pegs.

First you iron all along one edge to melt the glue. Once one edge is tacked in place, you simply pull the fabric taught and follow with the iron, heating it and pressing down to make the glue melt wherever the fabric meets underlying structure.
I've tied a bit of old sheet around the iron, so that it wouldn't melt and smear the paint on the fabric, spoiling its finish.

Alternatively you can use the special (but expensive) digitally-controlled hot air gun TLAC supplies with its associated 'felt blade'. Either way, it is important to press down hard (3kg or 7 lb) to burst all the microscopic bubbles of hardner within the adhesive suspension.

For larger areas it's better to use the bigger digital Toko iron, again pressing down hard, moving slowly, and following up with the felt blade. Oratex also reccommend that a sheet of silicone-coated paper is interspersed between the iron and the fabric to prevent damaging the pre-applied paint finish. I did find this rather required the use of three hands: to hold the iron, the slippery paper and the felt blade, but I seem to have accomplished the task without burning myself too often or too badly.

I generally started at the trailing edge, then wrapped the fabric all the way around the leading edge, back to the trailing edge. Once it's all stuck down, you merely trim off the surplus, wait ten minutes for it to cool, and then shrink it, first with the hot-air gun and then an all-over run with the Toko iron.

If conditions hadn't been so cold and damp I could have covered the whole wing in a week, although it actually took me a couple of months, doing one bay per day.

You don't need any of those old fashined tapes, or stitching or painting or any of that unnecessary, laborious crap. You just glue on the fabric and go fly!


[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Thursday, April 28, 2016 @ 03:29 PM]

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, April 27, 2016 @ 09:12 AM  

My final task was to paint the sunburst stripes on the wings' upper surfaces.
That Oratex paint is very expensive, but it sure does do a great job:

[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Saturday, April 30, 2016 @ 05:07 AM]

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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

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