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Jorgen
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Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 @ 09:51 AM  

Hi all,
seems the outriggers is something that needs some attention on our beloved Fourniers. There might even be improvements in materials that justifies an alteration of René Fourniers original and brilliant design, such as stronger and lighter plastic materials, sealed bearing rollerblade/kick bike wheels, etc. The original hoop-design design has been changed on many RF 3s and 4s to something similar to the RF 5 nylon rod-type, but not all modified single seaters (if any?) have the RF 5 fitting that attaches to therear of the spar.

On SE-XST (previous G-AVNX) previous-previus owner Mike Wollard upgraded the outriggers in 1995 when he repaired a wing damage, which I´ve mentioned before (see "modification-outrigger upgrade". I speculated that the 10th rib, where the outrigger is fitted is hollow, but that´s not correct, which can be seen in these pictures that Mike took on (then) G-AVNX. The 10th rib is reinforced with a block of Ashwood with cut-outs for the aileron push-rod and a tube (for electrical wires to smoke cannisters? There is a socket at the wing tip on SE-XST) and drilled holes for the fitting itself.

I´ve sent scanned drawings of the fitting itself to Collin for posting, I even have the fax number to the UK firm that manufactured the fittings, if they´re still in business. What other outrigger fittings are out there? Care to share?

Take 5(b) just 4 fun, Jörgen, SE-UDI, SE-XST.

[Edit by Jorgen on Friday, September 5, 2008 @ 04:34 AM]

Donald
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Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 @ 11:54 AM  

Jorgen,

I'm really looking forward to seeing your pictures and your drawings.

Regards
Donald

Collin
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Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2008 @ 07:32 PM  

Drawings from Jorgen

http://www.cfiamerica.com/rf4doutrigger.html

Donald
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Posted Wednesday, September 3, 2008 @ 02:01 AM  

Outstanding! Very grateful.

Donald

Jorgen
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Posted Wednesday, September 3, 2008 @ 04:32 PM  

Thanks Donald,
glad to help. But you really should thank Mike Wollard, who not only made an outstanding renovation of G-AVNX (now SE-XST) but also took time to document it for us all to see. Honors all around!

Take 5 (b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen, SE-UDI, SE-XST

Donald
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Posted Thursday, September 4, 2008 @ 01:59 AM  

Indeed. A tip of the hat to Mike.

I'm guessing but might the small hole through the ash block, the one with the metal insert, be associated with the spoiler? It seems excessive just to pass a couple of wires.

Donald

flyingkroeger
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Posted Thursday, September 4, 2008 @ 03:26 AM  

Hi Guys,

Can I ask whether G-AVNX's restauration report is somewhere on the net?

BR

Tim

Jorgen
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Posted Thursday, September 4, 2008 @ 04:41 PM  

Hi Tim,
there was an article about it in the December 1998 issue of "Motorgliding International". I don´t know if you can find it on the net somewhere, I only have a photocopy of it which I can try to scan and send to Steve. It would of course be preferable if someone out there have the real issue so we could get a proper scan of it.

It´s a nice article and well worth reading, especially if you´re about to undertake a major Fournier overhaul. I haven´t had the pleasure of making Mike´s aquaintance, but would like to get in touch with him. I think I saw you had been in touch with him, Bob?

Donald, you´re absolutely correct. The tube visible in the ashblock must be the outer pivoting axle of the spoiler.

Oh, and I had another puncture on the 4 yesterday so tomorrow´s spare time is spoken for. Got a bit of a bounce after an unexcpected gust of wind just on touching down. Good thing we learned how to fix it, huh?

Take 5(b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen, SE-UDI, SE-XST

[Edit by Jorgen on Friday, September 5, 2008 @ 04:44 AM]

flyingkroeger
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Posted Thursday, September 4, 2008 @ 08:06 PM  

Thanks Jorgen,

I will have a bit of a search later.

BR

Tim

Mira Slovak
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Posted Friday, September 5, 2008 @ 01:32 AM  

Hi Guys.
I have the original story about restoration of G-AVNX, but I have to find it. / I am semi disorganized./ Will let you know.
Mira Slovak.
SteveBeaver
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Posted Friday, September 5, 2008 @ 08:30 AM    YIM

Here are the articles, courtesy of Jörgen

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Tuesday, October 14, 2008 @ 02:44 AM  

Great,

Can't wait to print and read it.

Meanwhile, Mike Wollard is at:

Aeromikew@aol.com

I hope he won't mind you contacting him.

Do you know he jointly wrote the definitive book on glider aerobatics? It's very good, I recommend it.

Yours, Bob

flyingkroeger
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Posted Sunday, March 1, 2009 @ 10:11 PM  

Hi All,

Picture of my outriggers as requested by Jorgen.

BR

Tim

[Edit by flyingkroeger on Sunday, March 1, 2009 @ 10:12 PM]

[Edit by flyingkroeger on Sunday, March 1, 2009 @ 10:12 PM]

Jorgen
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Posted Saturday, March 28, 2009 @ 02:37 AM  

Thanks Tim,
that looks like a neat mod to me. What type of schock absorber do you use?

At first I was concerend that you might overstress the rear part of the 10th rib- but coming to think of it your mod is closer to the original hoop-design than the plastic rod-type I have...

I think that picture has a lot of leverage on the "Getting your RF in the hangar"- thread too. Not all hangar doors can swallow an 11 m wingspan and since RF 4´s can thrive also on the countryside, hangarage may need som ceative solutions like yours. Would you care to share the details of your "RF railway"?

Take 5(b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen

[Edit by Jorgen on Sunday, March 29, 2009 @ 04:52 AM]

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Friday, April 20, 2012 @ 07:25 AM  

Hi Guys,

Go back up to the third or fourth post on this thread.... drawings from Jorgen.

BEWARE!!!!

THOSE OUTRIGGER LEG SOCKET DRAWINGS ARE WRONG

Bobby Warren has just spent three years making sockets to those drawings, only to discover when we tried to fit them, that Mike Wollard (or whoever drew them) did not allow for the 18 degrees of rake that the legs have in Rene Fournier's original drawings.

Next week I shall try to upload an excerpt from the original factory drawings, but meanwhile do not try to make those legs as drawn.

Yours, Bob

--------------------

SteveBeaver
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Posted Friday, April 20, 2012 @ 08:43 AM    YIM

Here are the drawings: sbeaver.com/Fournier/outriggers.zip

They are pretty easy to make, and not too bad to install. I was able to produce a set on a rainy afternoon and install them over a weekend. Since fabric repair is required, you need to make time for the gluing, brushing and spraying.

One small change I made was to radius the inside of the tube into which the nylon leg fits. It seemed to me that the sharp edge of the tube would cause very high stresses in the leg, and would make it prone to snapping off.

Steve

Jorgen
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Posted Friday, April 20, 2012 @ 04:13 PM  

Hello,
the drawings you linked to seems like the RF 5 type outriggers, Steve. Bob, if you refer to the original design I thought they were the Hoop design. If there were RF 4's with nylon outriggers factory new I would be interested to take a look at their outriggers.

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Tuesday, April 24, 2012 @ 10:51 AM  

Hi Guys,

If you look at the drawings to which I was referring, you will see that they are Mike Woollard's design for an outrigger socket which utilises the original style of wing fitting.
In other words, they attach a one-inch nylon leg to the wing via the old holes, so they do not need the D-section leading-edge to be cut away to fit these newer style of sockets which Steve has illustrated.

I will upload the original drawings when I get a chance.

Yours, Bob

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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, May 2, 2012 @ 10:10 AM  

Here is part of the original drawing for the RF4D outrigger leg wing fitting.

You will notice that the leg is drawn with an eighteen-degree rake.

Mike Woollard's drawings omitted to specify this, making the resultant fittings rather useless.

Yours, Bob

--------------------

Jorgen
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Posted Friday, May 4, 2012 @ 06:03 PM  

OK Bob,
correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like the front fitting of the original Hoop-design? The dimensions on that fitting might be too thin too cope with the load of a single-leg outrigger. However, the 18 degree rake looks more correct. I have mused over the outrigger position on XST: the outriggers have a tendency to flex forward during slow taxi, probably because they lack that 18 degree rake that would keep them vertical in the settled and tail low configuration. This might put more stress on the spar, but I have to confess that I am not that worried now that I have shortened the outrigger legs so there is less risk of hitting the ground with an outrigger during take off and landing; at higher speeds. Compared to opening up the D-box to put in a RF 5-type fitting I think I prefer this fitting, but if you plan to get fittings done I think Mike Woollards drawings can be modified.

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

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