Important notice
Please remember that people from all over the world read and post on this forum, and that every country has its own rules, regulations and standards. This forum is based in the USA and so much of the information posted here is for the benefit of people who operate aircraft in the experimental/exhibition or experimental/racing categories. Advice given on this forum may be region specific. A person from Europe, for example, may make suggestions perfectly appropriate for a U.S reader, although not acceptable in his home country!

Please take this into account and carefully consult the authorities, standards and approved documentation where you fly.
Fournier Forums Upload picture | User Cp  |  Register  |  Members  |  Search  |  Help
    |- Fournier Aircraft > Modifications Post New Topic   Post A Reply
Webber gear mod printer friendly version
next newest post | next oldest post
Author Messages
SteveBeaver
General

Gender: Male
Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 361

Click here to see the profile for SteveBeaver Visit http://www.bucker.info Send email to SteveBeaver Send private message to SteveBeaver Find more posts by SteveBeaver Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Sunday, April 10, 2011 @ 08:48 PM    YIM

Joe Foley and I are thinking about making up a couple of Webber (Neoprene) landing gear mods. I have the drawings, but does anyone have a picture of the finished product? I thought there was one on the CFI website, but I can' seem to find it now.

Thanks,

Steve

Collin
General

Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 644

Click here to see the profile for Collin Visit http://www.cfiamerica.com Send email to Collin Send private message to Collin Find more posts by Collin Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, April 11, 2011 @ 00:14 AM  

This is Dann Park's Gear


jb92563
Second Lieutenant

Gender: Male
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 582

Click here to see the profile for jb92563 Visit http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563 Send email to jb92563 Send private message to jb92563 Find more posts by jb92563 Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, April 11, 2011 @ 12:09 PM  

Is this what you are looking for?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rgF3a8l646kqt6u71wcrYUM52VfCTvYB39aVXv9LihY/edit?hl=en#

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

Collin
General

Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 644

Click here to see the profile for Collin Visit http://www.cfiamerica.com Send email to Collin Send private message to Collin Find more posts by Collin Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, April 11, 2011 @ 02:18 PM  

Hi Ray,

The gear picture you posted is the from Alfred Scherer.

Steve is asking about Charlie Webber's Gear mod.


jb92563
Second Lieutenant

Gender: Male
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 582

Click here to see the profile for jb92563 Visit http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563 Send email to jb92563 Send private message to jb92563 Find more posts by jb92563 Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, April 11, 2011 @ 04:51 PM  

Seems like the springs would make for a very bouncy landing as they would simply return the energy of the landing back to the airframe after a slight delay along with the accompanying bounce.

I think the idea of the rubber is that it may dampen the landing and act more like a shock absorber dissipating landing shock more instead
of passing it all back to the airframe in a bounce.

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

Bob Grimstead
Captain

Gender: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
Registered: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 1694

Click here to see the profile for Bob Grimstead Visit http://www.redhawksduo.co.uk Send email to Bob Grimstead Send private message to Bob Grimstead Find more posts by Bob Grimstead Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, April 11, 2011 @ 09:35 PM  

Hi Guys,

Bouncy landing? You could say that of all Cessnas too, since they all use Steve Witman's spring steel gear legs (undamped) -- RVs also, plus a host of other types.

Now think of the standard Fournier landing gear suspension -- simple rubber bungees -- again with no damper.

One of my Fourniers (the blue one) has standard bungees. The red one has the Bauer/Scherer steel springs.

As regards landing touchdown & bounces, they are identical.

There is only one difference, which is that the airplane with the Scherer springs rides a little lower to the ground, so it lands maybe two mph faster.

However, the big advantage to those springs is that , because they hold the landing gear fork in a cmore entral position (rather than at the top of its travel as the bungees do) the main fork hits the other casting far less often. And of course, this point where contact happens has been the place where all those castings have snapped.

So, when I have amassed sufficient Euros I shall be buying a set of those steel springs and replacing the tired old rubber bungees on HDO.

I HATE the idea that the steel springs are significantly heavier than Rene's light and simple bungees, but those rubbers only last maybe five years, they are difficult to obtain, and most importantly, they reduce the likelihood of the irreplacable casting cracking.

But that's just my opinion.

Yours, Bob

--------------------

Collin
General

Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 644

Click here to see the profile for Collin Visit http://www.cfiamerica.com Send email to Collin Send private message to Collin Find more posts by Collin Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Sunday, April 17, 2011 @ 10:26 AM  

Hi,

Another picture of the Webber mod.

Dave Milner's Milan

dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Saturday, June 25, 2011 @ 04:27 PM  

Does anyone know where to get the rubber bumper donuts used in the Webber mod?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

SteveBeaver
General

Gender: Male
Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 361

Click here to see the profile for SteveBeaver Visit http://www.bucker.info Send email to SteveBeaver Send private message to SteveBeaver Find more posts by SteveBeaver Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Saturday, June 25, 2011 @ 07:35 PM    YIM

www.mcmaster.com Part number: 8637K16

Enter the part number in the search form.

Steve

dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Saturday, June 25, 2011 @ 08:46 PM  

Perfect. Thanks. How do you cut it? Band saw? Table saw?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

SteveBeaver
General

Gender: Male
Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 361

Click here to see the profile for SteveBeaver Visit http://www.bucker.info Send email to SteveBeaver Send private message to SteveBeaver Find more posts by SteveBeaver Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Saturday, June 25, 2011 @ 08:49 PM    YIM

A band saw would work well I think.

Steve

SteveBeaver
General

Gender: Male
Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 361

Click here to see the profile for SteveBeaver Visit http://www.bucker.info Send email to SteveBeaver Send private message to SteveBeaver Find more posts by SteveBeaver Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 01:40 PM    YIM

I had to buy a box of 100 1 1/2" washers. If you give me your mailing address, I'll send you some.

Steve

dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:00 AM  

Thanks, Steve. I think I'm OK in the washer department. I will have some more "mystery parts" posted soon and appreciate help sorting them out.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

SteveBeaver
General

Gender: Male
Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 361

Click here to see the profile for SteveBeaver Visit http://www.bucker.info Send email to SteveBeaver Send private message to SteveBeaver Find more posts by SteveBeaver Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:52 AM    YIM

These are the eight disks required to build the Webber gear mod. They were quite hard to find, but if you have them already, no problem.

Steve

dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 01:40 AM  

I got the rubber from McMaster and it seems to be good stuff.

I did learn something in the process that might be of interest. When I first rebuilt the gear with the old rubber there was a gap between the casting and the orange rubber tube "bumper". See below.

As I was test-fitting the gear I noticed that the gear cover would not fit over the gear when it was up. It turned out that gap was there because the gear strut was not fully extended when the gear was retracted, and it was causing interference. When I cut the new rubber, I made it longer so the gap was closed and there was some tension holding the gear strut extended (top photo). And now the cover fits.

Maybe this was some peculiarity with my Webber mod, but it might be something to look for if you're having issues.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

eugenio
First Sergeant

Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 288

Click here to see the profile for eugenio Visit http://www.avag.it Send email to eugenio Send private message to eugenio Find more posts by eugenio Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, July 4, 2011 @ 02:36 PM  

Sometimes it happens also with original bungees when they are blow up. When the bungee is new the fork has a couple of millimeters of free play. You can notice that when you remove the old bungees (they are hard to be removed) but when you put in the new ones they fit without problems. If you take a measure between the old and the new ones you will notice the difference.

Eugenio

Jorgen
Captain

Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 777

Click here to see the profile for Jorgen Send email to Jorgen Send private message to Jorgen Find more posts by Jorgen Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, July 4, 2011 @ 05:25 PM  

The Webber gear mod looks nice, but maybe a tad heavier than the original bungees? Is the Webber-mod less "bouncy"?
I guess the Webber mod otherwise is cheaper and easier to replace.

May the 4's be with you/ J๖rgen

Bob Brock
Master Sergeant

Gender: Male
Location: Portland, Oregon
Registered: Mar 2009
Status: Offline
Posts: 154

Click here to see the profile for Bob Brock Send email to Bob Brock Send private message to Bob Brock Find more posts by Bob Brock Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Tuesday, July 5, 2011 @ 11:57 AM  

Greetings.. I have the Webber gear mod... and one of the problems that I will solve with modification of the snail is that when retracted to the "up" lock position, the two top bolts press against the snail shell and make locking up a bit difficult. I am modifying my snail to attach like Eugenio figured out (from the inside of the wheel side) with a fiberglass extension. I would not have found the problem except for examination of the snail and rubbed parts which are difficult to see. Hopefully, this will solve the gear up lock problem. I don't know which one is best.. so I will try to improve the one I have. I will take some pictures and post.
dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Tuesday, July 5, 2011 @ 01:11 PM  

Bob, check that the springs (rubber) are pulling the swing-arm all the way up before retracting. I was having the same contact problem with the large nuts and the snail, and found the problem was the rubber (see above).

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

eugenio
First Sergeant

Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 288

Click here to see the profile for eugenio Visit http://www.avag.it Send email to eugenio Send private message to eugenio Find more posts by eugenio Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Tuesday, July 5, 2011 @ 02:23 PM  

Bob, if you're using my way of fixing the wheel shell, use a drop of loctite on the self tapping screws (or machine screws if you use inserts) otherwise if they get loose you will have problems in retracting and extending the landing gear. I had that problem a couple of times before locking the screws. Since then any more problem.

Eugenio

jb92563
Second Lieutenant

Gender: Male
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 582

Click here to see the profile for jb92563 Visit http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563 Send email to jb92563 Send private message to jb92563 Find more posts by jb92563 Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, July 25, 2011 @ 04:04 PM  

During the RF4D reassembly I noticed my bungee's are starting to come apart, and now I need to replace them soon as well.

Where can I get those bungee's?

What are my alternatives if I want to get away from the bungees, Webber or Scherer bungee replacement?

Looks like the Webber needs a Welded replacement piece while the Scherer fits on the same hardware?

Are there any advantages/disadvantages to consider with those options?

Cost/longevity comparisons?

[Edit by jb92563 on Monday, July 25, 2011 @ 04:04 PM]

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

eugenio
First Sergeant

Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 288

Click here to see the profile for eugenio Visit http://www.avag.it Send email to eugenio Send private message to eugenio Find more posts by eugenio Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Wednesday, July 27, 2011 @ 03:08 PM  

Bungees are the lightest option, but the more expensive, I sell them for about 200 euro each. I heard about EIS Aircraft who sells them for 90 euros, but is just a rumour. Honestly if you have not concern about weight the other two options are quite cheaper and last more.
The Webber one is the easiest to do, the other one is a little more complicated.

Eugenio

jb92563
Second Lieutenant

Gender: Male
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 582

Click here to see the profile for jb92563 Visit http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563 Send email to jb92563 Send private message to jb92563 Find more posts by jb92563 Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, August 8, 2011 @ 10:38 AM  

Quote:
Originally posted by SteveBeaver

Joe Foley and I are thinking about making up a couple of Webber (Neoprene) landing gear mods. I have the drawings, but does anyone have a picture of the finished product? I thought there was one on the CFI website, but I can' seem to find it now.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

Can I buy a copy of the Weber Gear plans?

I need to replace my bungies as they are totally shot now, and I'd rather just build the Weber gear so future replacements are easier.

[Edit by jb92563 on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 @ 10:09 AM]

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

Collin
General

Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 644

Click here to see the profile for Collin Visit http://www.cfiamerica.com Send email to Collin Send private message to Collin Find more posts by Collin Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, August 8, 2011 @ 02:15 PM  

Hi Ray,

Here are 3 .tif files on the Webber mod. I will be in Lake Elsinore next week.

Collin

http://www.cfiamerica.com/images/pdf/Webber%20Gear%20Mod%20-%20General%20Arrangement.tif

http://www.cfiamerica.com/images/pdf/Webber%20Gear%20Mod%20-%20Tension%20Rod.tif

http://www.cfiamerica.com/images/pdf/Webber%20Gear%20Mod%20-%20Stirrup.tif

jb92563
Second Lieutenant

Gender: Male
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 582

Click here to see the profile for jb92563 Visit http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563 Send email to jb92563 Send private message to jb92563 Find more posts by jb92563 Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Monday, August 8, 2011 @ 03:12 PM  

Thanks Collin,

Maybe we can meet when you are down and you can see the results of my fuselage recover and chit chat a bit.

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

dannparks
Sergeant Major

Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Click here to see the profile for dannparks Visit https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1 Send email to dannparks Send private message to dannparks Find more posts by dannparks Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Wednesday, November 7, 2012 @ 08:19 PM  

In doing my initial taxi tests I noticed that my Webber gear is very hard. The rubber is compressed about 1/2" with the plane weight on it, but it doesn't really compress any more hitting bumps. It makes for a very hard ride and a lot of oscillation from the tire bouncing and not taken up by the suspension. During the rebuild I put in new rubber as recommended by Steve above. Is the rubber maybe too stiff, or do I have something binding. If I bounce the aircraft when it is sitting on the ground I don't see any suspension travel. Is this normal? There isn't much fuel in it now. Does this change with more fuel in the tank?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Jorgen
Captain

Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 777

Click here to see the profile for Jorgen Send email to Jorgen Send private message to Jorgen Find more posts by Jorgen Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Thursday, November 8, 2012 @ 06:17 AM  

Hi Dann,
I can understand your predicament, my first contact with a Fournier was when I taxied then "G-AVNX" on frost-bitten grass in Bicester, UK. It was a pretty bumpy ride and I remember beeing a bit worried. I still swearingly ease off the throttle sometimes when I bounce in potholes, taxying on our strip. My impression is that the suspension (bungies, Webber or Scherer are essentially similar) on RF 4's are not very good at swallowing bumps at taxispeed and can easily get in an oscillating mode, the RF 5 suspension (with a damper) is much better. My solution is to taxi slowly, at take-off and landing I rarely notice any bumping- at higher speeds that long wing does it's thing, unloading the gear.

Whether yours is bumpier is hard to tell, maybe you can compare with Bob B's?

May the 4's be with you/ J๖rgen

[Edit by Jorgen on Friday, November 9, 2012 @ 05:31 AM]

Collin
General

Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 644

Click here to see the profile for Collin Visit http://www.cfiamerica.com Send email to Collin Send private message to Collin Find more posts by Collin Edit or delete this message Reply w/Quote
Posted Thursday, November 8, 2012 @ 01:48 PM  

Hi Dann,

I have all three versions of landing gear suspensions (Zok, Scherer, Eugenio) Your welcome to try them. Also the 5B is flying again.

--------------------
Collin Gyenes rebuilding RF4D, Flying RF5B

Post New Topic   Post A Reply Jump to:
Contact Us | cfiamerica.com | Privacy Policy All times are GMT -4 Hours.
Welcome to The Fournier Forum, Guest!  
Login
Username :
Password :
In order to fully utilize the abilities of this board, you are required to register as a member. Registration is free, and allows you to do lots of things including turning on or off certain features of this board. Register now!
Forum Rules & Description
Who Can Read The Forum? Any registered user or guest
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered user
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered user
Who Can Edit Posts? Any original author
How can you improve on perfection?
Currently Active Users: 13
There are currently 0 members and 13 guests on the boards. | Most users ever online was 48 on 04-05-2014 02:41 AM
Search This Forum
Search Keywords: Search From:
Powered by CuteCast v2.0 BETA 2
Copyright © 2001-2003 ArtsCore Studios