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Tony
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Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2011 @ 02:53 AM  

Hello Forum

Well, a minor problem my end. I did have a gentleman supposedly making me a new wing for my RF4D, however upon recently "catching up" on his progress, it turns out hes not even started, and more worryingly, doesnt seem to have any of the jigs he said he had! I've therefore been trying to track down the remains of an RF4 wing broken in the 1990s, but yesterday spoke to the gentleman who burned the remains 3 years ago!

So right now looks like my only option is to build an entire new wing from sctracth. I have most of the metal parts from G-BIIF, including spoilers and pushrods, but absolutely nothing of the wooden structure. So, worldwide:

Does anybody out there know of any complete/damaged/incomplete RF4D wings?
Alternatively, does anybody have or know of any jigs for ribs/spar etc that exist?
Has anybody out there actually built a wing from scratch? (I've seen the thread on a wing repair).

Its going to be a while, I have a workshop premises move planned for August, and a lot of work to do on the fuselage, so doubt I'll get onto the project properly until 2012 - but I need to get the flow of information rolling now to stay on top of everything!

Help????

Tony

Jorgen
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Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2011 @ 06:32 AM  

Hi Tony,
first of all- respect for doing what you can to put another RF 4 back in the air, I am certain you will find a lot of help and sympathy from all forum members. Regarding building a wing from scratch, you did see Markku's wing repair thread? He is probably one of the members on here that can give you the best answers regarding your project. Also, there is the french "UL-RF 4"-project that might have some spin-off interest to you, I don't know who is in the best position to connect you there but there is a thread here on the forum regarding that as well.

Imagine burning a Fournier wing- horrible. On the other hand, that's what supposedly happened to the remains of Manfred von Richthofen's triplane a cold winter in 1945. You will need jigs- which might be an advantage since that will put you in a position to possibly monopolize eventual RF 4 maintenance in the future. Good Luck and keep us posted, will you?

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

Tony
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Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2011 @ 04:28 PM  

Hi Jorgen

Its a daungting task, but yes I've seen the thread on repairing Markku's wing. It seems a pretty straight forward wing design (if you compare to say the SF27 wing I just rebuilt). Still would be nice to know if there are some big parts anywhere? What happened to the factory jigs???

Rgds

T

Jorgen
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Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2011 @ 06:27 PM  

Quote:
What happened to the factory jigs???

Aha, my dear Watson, ehrm, Tony:
http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=0uYMfTJGGOJdqRL57UTRMgKBqO&forum=11&thread=320

As you can see, according to Bob Grimstead the factory jigs were not quite true, which is why all RF 4's have a factory-induced roll to the right, corrected with an aileron tab. Who knows, you might find a way to correct that and if so, I for one would like to discuss business with you!

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, June 2, 2011 @ 10:07 AM  

Hi Tony,

I am really sad to hear that guy burned those wing remains.
The same thing happened to a South African wing from a crashed RF4 I was chasing.

When I last spoke to Christian Zok, at Gap Tallard last year, he told me he rebuilt his RF4D from a crashed airframe, and he said several times that the longest extant Fournier piece befoe he started was 1.5 metres long, so he might be able to help you with jigs etc.

There is a picture of Christian on the CFIAmerica site at: http://www.cfiamerica.com/images/Christan_Uncle_Harry_Christan_Zok.JPG He’s the one with the mutton-chop whiskers.

More importantly his lovely orange Fournier is also supposed to be pictured on the site, but that one, among several others (and his other portraits) won’t pop up when I go to the page http://www.cfiamerica.com/id4world.html

Christian’s e-mail address is chrzok@aol.com and he admits he doesn’t always reply quickly, because he would rather be out flying than reading e-mails.

He may well be coming to the British CFI get-together at Husbands Bosworth over the weekend 15-18 July.

Maybe see you there?

Good luck.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Tony
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Posted Friday, June 3, 2011 @ 05:12 AM  

No problems Bob, as you know, its going to be a fair while off with my current workload, butmight as well get the flow of information building up whilst I wait! Looks like my only way to go will be to build a wing jig which might well make me a popular guy in the Fournier world!!

I might be able to make a day of the British meet, I'm on tour with the HpH Shark Jet pretty much every weekend which is going to eat a lot of my time this summer! That particular weekend I'm due in Norfolk, but might be able to travel via Hus Bos on the friday.

Regards

Tony

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Saturday, June 4, 2011 @ 07:50 AM  

Something else I forgot to say Tony.

In my garage is the centre-section of a crashed French one belonging to Matt.

It has been sawn off at the wing roots, but you get to see the several laminations and the grain direction etc, so it might be of use.

I'll check with Matt, but I'm sure he'll let you borrow it for the winter.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Donald
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Posted Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:06 PM  

Tony, are you aka 'Fournier Boy' and was your RF4D G-BIIF?
Tony
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Posted Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 04:21 PM  

Ah ha, my musings on another internet forum have been discovered! ;-)
Donald
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 02:16 AM  

You can't hide. :-)
I've been asked to look at refreshing the Fournier UK web site so have been doing some research on RF's on, or which had been on, the UK register. The few de-registered aircraft for which there was no official statement of having been destroyed piqued my interest. G-BIIF, formerly G-BVET, formerly F-BOXG was one.
You've a long road ahead of you, but I wish you well on it.
Tony
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Posted Sunday, July 10, 2011 @ 05:53 PM  

Well chaps, work has to begin at some point, so in the last few quiet days I have started to plot out the wing rib sections of the mighty Fournier life size in paper from the drawings I got from Bob G (thanks Bob). Once I have each individual rib (I realise quite a number are the same shape, just with slightly different hole placings) then with full understanding, I can construct solid wing rib jigs. I will be keeping all of the jigs I make for the RF4 wing as mainly I'm a hoarder at heart, plus if I'm going to go through all the effort of making an entire wing from sctratch, I might as well have the ability to repair one at some point!

So, as all the Fourniers I know of in the UK all have their fabric clothes on, I'm appealing to all those restorers past and present for their input to allow me to create an archive of the internal structure of Fournier. Starting with the wings, I'm looking for:

Rib photos from 1 to 18 taken from port and starboard aspects of each rib.
False spar front front and rear aspects
Rear (drag) spar from front and rear aspects.
Spoiler boxes from all aspects
Centre section between the two wing panels.
Plus any "general" images of ply skinning, construction, fittings etc etc

If any available pictures could be forwarded (ideally with descriptions - but if not I can work it out I'm sure) to tony@thegliderworkshop.co.uk (unlimited email capacity).

Photos will help me with the clarity of the drawings and there on with the rib jigs. I will also document the construction of these ribs to aid in any fellow enthusiasts rebuilds.

I've made some jottings on the spar jig idea which I will peruse later this week (possibly fueled by cury) but really due to storage and construction space issues, I will most certainly build the main spar last.

Wish me luck, sweepstake? 24 months?

Jorgen
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Posted Sunday, July 10, 2011 @ 06:41 PM  

Tony,
that's sounds great! I have some pictures from then G-AVNX (now SE-XST) that Mike Woolard took during the wingrepair, I'll see if I can send you copies of them.

I had an hour-long Fournier flight today with engine time 15 minutes so I can vouch that when you eventually get there it will all be worthwhile. I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted will you?

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

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