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Mystery parts (first in a series) printer friendly version
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dannparks
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Posted Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 01:08 AM  

Since I got N2188 in pieces from Collin, there was also a large box of parts. Now that I'm approaching assembly mode, I'm trying to figure out what everything is. I will certainly have some "mystery parts" that I would be beholden to the group to help identify.

These two plates look like they might go under the main wing/fuselage bolts, but I don't know the use of the hoop on one of them. The hoop one is unpainted, although it looks like it has been used.

Any help would be appreciated.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Jorgen
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Posted Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 04:31 AM  

Hey Dann,
what a great idea- "-Wellcome to play Wednesday night POP-Quiz- can you guess were on the Fournier anatomy this part comes from?"

I'm sorry but I can´t check my RF 4 right now, maybe this weekend though. In the meantime I would say your guess about (washer under the wing bolt) is a good one, but I can´t off the top of my head say what that hoop is for. I bet Bob has an educated guess though, on this thread I think there is actually a drawing showing that piece as a washer with the hoop you described under the wingbolt:

http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=fxe48O3EOy9BEthIY3AoMSE7y8&forum=11&thread=490

I'm already looking forward to the next quiz!

Edit: On XST, the hoop is on the left wingbolt. D.S.

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

[Edit by Jorgen on Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 03:41 AM]

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 06:12 AM  

Hi Dann, Jorgen.

Yes, those are indeed the plates that go over the forward ends of the wing bolts.
On top of them go a big, thick washer and a 22mm Nylok nut.

Now we get to the odd bit.

Yes, they are different.

From memory (not always reliable these days) the right one has the loop.
I have always presumed this is a lifting loop (for lifting up the whole airplane), but why only one bolt has it and not the other, I do not know.
Neverthelss, every RF4 I've seen has just one plate with the loop, while the other is plain.

If that loop has some other purpose and anybody knows what it is, I would love to know myself.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

dannparks
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Posted Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 00:09 AM  

The lifting concept is interesting. I was thinking of making some loop/plates just like this to lift the plane from the front of the spar for storage. I would love to know if this was Rene's intention from the beginning. And why only one? Is there another hook spot back in the cockpit diagonally from the front loop that could be used to create a sling that would allow you to adjust the lifting point fore/aft a bit?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

dannparks
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Posted Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 00:12 AM  

Mystery part no. 2

I haven't a guess at this one...

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Markku
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Posted Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 01:20 AM  

Hi Dann
That's the fin front fix plate to fuselage, you will find two M4 bolt holes in top of the rear fuselage and one M5 in the front of fin bottom. The loop in the wing fixing plate is most probably a parachute release cord connection point, it's normally used in older german sailplanes and motorgliders.

[Edit by Markku on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 03:31 AM]

[Edit by Markku on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 07:00 AM]

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, June 15, 2011 @ 07:56 AM  

Well, well, well.

Thanks Markku.
That solves that conundrum!

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

eugenio
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Posted Thursday, June 16, 2011 @ 02:58 PM  

The loop on the wing bolt plate is for the self opening parachute. It was a particular required by the LBA regulation. All gliders had to have it. I do not know if it's still required, but I suppose not.

Eugenio

Tony
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Posted Friday, June 17, 2011 @ 05:57 PM  

Not a requirement under CS-22 anymore, but still popular with Schemmp Hirth and Schleicher. DG used to have a hard point fitted as part of the front wing spigot mountings.

Not sure how many parachute manufacturers make the long lanyards anymore, I've only come across one in 17 years...

Tony

jb92563
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Posted Monday, June 20, 2011 @ 11:31 AM  

I concur on that rudder plate. (And the wing bolt plate and loop)

I think I saw a matching plate with loop on a diagonal to the rear wing attach fittings, so it may indeed have been used during construction to lift the entire aircraft.

If you need a picture for clarification of its location I can take one of the fin this evening showing its location.

Everything is still apart in the garage.

[Edit by jb92563 on Monday, June 20, 2011 @ 04:08 PM]
I found my rudder photo has this part visible (Yellow Circle)

[Edit by jb92563 on Monday, June 20, 2011 @ 04:08 PM]

--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org

dannparks
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Posted Wednesday, June 22, 2011 @ 09:07 PM  

Mystery parts no. 3.

Actually, I know these are the hoops for the rudder peddle springs, but where do they go on the firewall (or on the floor?). My firewall is full of holes and I'm not sure what hole is for what.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Collin
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Posted Thursday, June 23, 2011 @ 04:01 PM  

Hi Dann,

This is a old pictue of your RF4D


dannparks
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Posted Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 10:19 PM  

These are parts of the lower rudder bearing assembly. Does anyone have any photos or drawings of how they go together? Are there some parts missing?

I know the plate with the 5 holes goes on the rudder, and the angle brackets go on the vertical stabilizer, and the rudder cables connect to the ends of the long piece. Somehow, the long piece must connect to the plate...?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 09:17 AM  

Bugger,

I took off my rudder just last week, when I thought my fin had come a little loose (actually it was just the dorsal fairing flexing and rubbing, but one needs to be sure). I should have taken some photos while fiddling with this fitting, but sorry, I didn't.

Obviously, there's a pivot bolt through the central spherical bearing on the long arm, which goes through the hole in the lower bracket on the fin. and that arm bolts onto the eight-holed bracket on the rudder via a couple of chunky aluminum spacers, about the diameter of American nickels or quarters (three-quarters of an inch in diameter?), but maybe a quarter of an inch thick. The inboard holes on the long arm bolt to the outboard holes on the eight-holed rudder bracket. The five countersunk holes are for the countersunk Allen screws holding that bracket to the rudder.

It's a complex fitting, but elegant in its simplicity, because removing the rudder merely means slipping out those two bolts and spacers, leaving the rudder fitting and fin fitting in place.

I hope that's helpful Dann.
Ask more questions if you need to, and I think this is a great thread, which might well become the longest thread in time.

Yours, Bob

[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 09:23 AM]

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 10:10 AM  

I am an idiot,

Down in my garage are the mortal remains of F-BMKC, the last of the French RF4s (ie, not an RF4D). It spun in at low level, so only the rear fuselage and empennage survived (and no, the pilot didn't). But the fin and rudder are fine.

So, this is a photo of the pivot arm bolted to the fin, looking obliquely down from on top.

Here it is again, looking up from underneath.

Here's a pic of the eight-hole plate, bolted in place on the rudder, again looking up from underneath.

Finally, an overall photo of the whole fitting, held nearly in place, but not bolted together.

I hope that all helps Dann.

Yours, Bob

[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 10:26 AM]

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

dannparks
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Posted Wednesday, June 29, 2011 @ 10:45 AM  

Thanks, Bob. Great photos. It looks like I need to track down thoses spacers in my box-o-parts. I did find all the countersunk bolts.

As always, having such a knowledgable global resource of people is amazing.

More mystery parts to come...

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Jorgen
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 05:54 AM  

Thanks for sharing that Fournieteers,
with the risk of stating the obvious for fellow Fournierclerics I find a certain elegance in the small parts and find myself admiring the pictures just for that. "Der form folgt der function" as has been said also in artistic settings.

This thread is developing into pure Fourniography. Let's just keep it nice and clean, shall we?

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

P.S. This thread discuss the grooves these rudder fittings tend to create:
http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=1MO5HvCg9LZp4GCFDIVC0H1GNN&forum=11&thread=504
D.S.

[Edit by Jorgen on Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 05:58 AM]

dannparks
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 10:28 AM  

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm glad people find this fun. A couple more...

This is for the elevators (I'm pretty sure). Any pictures of how this all goes together? There might be some parts missing here as well.

Then there are these two bits...

These are small and are not countersunk. Are they related to the above?

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 11:44 AM  

Oh Dann, Dann, Dann!

Why didn't you carefully bag up all these components and properly mark the bags with their origins?
And why didn't you take lots of photos before dismantling?

I can't say for sure what all these things are, since so many Fournier components are very similar, although not interchangeable.

I think the top right part is one of the four elevator hinges bolted to the tailplane/horizontal stabilizer.

Again, I think the bottom right 8-shaped part joins the two elevator halves in the middle, but you'll have to figure out exactly how by yourself, because to get a photo would mean dismantling my airplane, and I'm not gonna do that, sorry.

The other bits? The big L-shaped thing might be part of the elevator linkage, or is it an aileron bracket?

Wow, what a mess if your whole airplane is like this!

Good luck.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

dannparks
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 01:40 PM  

Bags? Photos? Labels? what's the fun in that? ;^)

Actually, I took lots of photos and bagged and labeled all the parts that I disassembled -- including the complex stick casting thing. However, I got it with the wing and empenage (and other stuff) removed so I never got to see how those parts went together.

The elevator assembly is really the only remaining mystery. I have to admit, I did disassemble this many years ago and can't seem to find the notes I had made at the time. I know it's very difficult to see, but I'm hoping someone has some photos or drawings, or a 4 with the vertical stabilizer removed that can make some quick snaps. Thanks.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Markku
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 04:23 PM  

Hi Dann
I can send you some drawing copies for help if you give your e-mail adress, Those three bigger items are elevator middle bearing and elevator linkage and connection piece as Bob mentioned, those two remaining seems to be non-standard Fournier parts
Parts on the lower picture might be the backplates for seat belt connection part

[Edit by Markku on Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 04:30 PM]

dannparks
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Posted Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 05:05 PM  

Thanks Markku.
dparks(at)spiritone.com

I also have a yousendit dropbox if the files are large. Just go to the link and upload the files.
https://www.yousendit.com/dropbox?dropbox=DannParks-TNG

I've identified the seatbelt backplates, so maybe they are not Fournier at all.

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

dannparks
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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 01:05 AM  

Collin and I visited Bob Brock's RF4D project at Twin Oaks Airpark (Near Hillsboro, Oregon) today. He is making steady progress and it is looking great.

Bob had a few mystery parts to share...

--------------------
Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 07:41 AM  

Hi Dann, Bob,

I'm pretty sure that's the bracket holding the fuel strainer/drainer ('Gascolator') in place on the lower right forward firewall.

You can just about make it out in this photo.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 08:13 AM  

Interesting part,
isn't that a very odd "thread" at the end- is it just driven into the firewall with a hammer?

May the 4´s be with you/ Jörgen

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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 09:27 AM  

It is the fuel drain support, and there is normal M5 (or M4?) thread in the end. It's going through the firewall and there is a nut inside
Donald
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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 11:46 AM  

Maybe that's a moiré pattern that we're seeing, and not the actual thread.

Bob, does the RF4 magneto 'pudding basin' fit on the front face of the firewall? On the RF3 it fits on the back face but the RF3 doesn't have these swing-down engine mounts so you have to be able to remove if from the back to get access to the magneto without taking the engine off.

[Edit by Donald on Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 11:50 AM]

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Posted Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 03:39 PM  

Donald,
I think you are correct and I was confused by some sort of digital effect.

I also think the magneto basin is fitted from the front in the 4. Removing a magneto from the back with the engine in place would seem a formidable challenge to me, with an engine hoist it's probably much easier to just lift the engine away enough to access the magneto.

Markku has "le maillot jeune" in the parts quiz right now, doesn't he? I think he will be hard to catch!

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

[Edit by Jorgen on Sunday, July 3, 2011 @ 03:42 PM]

Collin
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Posted Monday, July 4, 2011 @ 09:33 AM  

You guys can't give Dann to much of a hard time for his parts mix up. I took the N2188 apart in 2004.

Collin

Bob Grimstead
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Posted Monday, July 4, 2011 @ 10:35 AM  

Hi Guys,

Sorry Dann, for giving you a hard time.
Seems I should have given Collin a hard time instead? ;-)

On our three Rf4s, the magneto shroud definitely fits from the front or the firewall, ie, from outside the fuselage (just like in the photo above of Dave Bland's RF4), although obviously I can't be sure that's how they all started life, but some of the black-and-white original photos on Collin's site suggest that was standard.

I still haven't recognized the two oval links nor the two twin-yoke thingies, but my brain is quietly working on them in its spare times (Ha!)

Best wishes to all.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

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