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Bob Grimstead
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Gender: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
Registered: Dec 2006
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Posts: 2028
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 Posted Thursday, October 3, 2013 @ 06:17 PM
Like HDO, G-AWGN (Wagon) has very tired original fabric, which has had numerous coats of inflexible paint applied, one over amother. The result is appalling cracking and flaking, so I've decided to bit the bullet, dismantle the airframe and get glider maintenance ace Tony Hoskins to strip, re-cover and re-paint it.
Thi is stage two, traliering it to his workshop.
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Bob Grimstead
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Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
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Posted Thursday, October 3, 2013 @ 06:45 PM
...and there goes the wing.
My other good friend and retired carpenter buddy (also ex flying instructor & examiner) Alan Washington made up a couple of sloping trestles to go under ribs 9, where the outriggers attach, so that the wing will be at the correct angle when we come to put the fuselage back on to it. They were also useful for supporting it on the trailer.
Tony will be using the Polyfiber lightweight process, with Ranthane two-pack paint, Insignia White and Pontiac Red.
Completion date is the end of October, so that the inspections, paperwork and test flying can be done in early November, in time for the tenth anniversary of my retirement from British Airways (also my birthday, of course).
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 6, 2013 @ 10:39 AM
Wagon has arrived safely at Tony's workshop...
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 05:23 AM
Here's the stripped fuselage, slightly damp in patches where the water got past the fabric & paint, but drying out nicely.
That's the soon-to-be-resurrected G-BIIF alongside, for some useful measuring and other comparisons.
The only real snag we have found is a cracked tailwheel bearing mount block, due to be replaced today.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 05:27 AM
Stripping the wing was much easier. The fabric almost fell off.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 05:30 AM
The most damp was under the cockpit floor, where there was no fabric, only paint.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 05:35 AM
...just a few little bits of damp under the centre-section, where the fabric was peeling a little and water wicked in.
All this has been there for at least a year, because I haven't flown it for that long, but luckily there was no sign of rot.
It's all drying out nicely as I post this.
So far as I know, there's no repair work necessary in the wings.
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Markku
Master Sergeant
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Location: Kouvola, Finland, EFWB
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 08:10 AM
Hi Bob
Check that the dark areas on cockpit floor are not damaged by engine oil
Markku
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Kadir
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Posted Thursday, October 10, 2013 @ 03:04 PM 
Any RFs covered in Oratex?
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Saturday, October 12, 2013 @ 11:24 AM
Thanks Markku,
Some of that is indeed oil staining, and Tony is currently working on leaching it out with solvents.
The only serious problem seems to be a cracked tailwheel mount block, which Bobby Warren has removed for duplication.
I shall try to get a photo when I can.
Yours, Bob
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Donald
Command Sergeant Major
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Posted Sunday, October 13, 2013 @ 03:36 PM
I'm sure she will be lovely when finished, Bob, and shedding all the old paint layers it'll be interesting to hear of the weight saving. My RF3 lost 30lbs when I had her recovered.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 13, 2013 @ 03:56 PM
Wow! That's impressive Donald.
We've done the initial weighing, and I think a few pounds of water have already evaporated off.
We will share the eventual result with all.
I'm still aiming for that elusive 1,000 foot per minute climb.
Yours, Bob
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Donald
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Posted Sunday, October 13, 2013 @ 04:36 PM
Then maybe swap these orange smokes for RATO packs!
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Jorgen
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Posted Sunday, October 13, 2013 @ 06:14 PM
Bob,
thanks for sharing, interesting picture- I wonder how XST looks under the fabric of the belly behind the firewall... My best regards to Tony "FournierBoy" Hoskins, good luckwith the recovery.
Donald, RATO's have been tried you know. Check out this clip (especially the comments):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D-NE8vX25I
May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 13, 2013 @ 07:25 PM
Hhmmmmm!?
A hundred and how many troops killed when a rocket failed on one side?
...and theirs are not on the wingtips.
I honestly think 1,000 fpm is eventually achievable at aerobatic weight in ISA with my 1,776cc engine, although it will require a lot more work yet.
Getting the weight down is of course vital, but better sealing of the airframe (particularly the wheel well & canopy) will help a lot.
Two years ago I got 720fpm (from memory) with this engine and the Hercules propeller at maximum weight, so nearly 800fpm should have been available with only 15 litres of fuel in the tank.
I have since fitted dual-port heads, although the only flight I have made in that configuration showed little obvious improvement, but of course they have not yet bedded in.
Sam Mason's uncle Jon's Mikuni carburettor should allow better breathing, and might be good for another 100fpm.
That development will come in Australia early next year, and it will go on to 'WGN if it works OK.
Then dual ignition should be worth something (these dual-port heads have eight spark plugs).
Better cowlings, reduced cooling drag, reduced pilot weight, these are all planned improvements.
Obviously I shall let you all know how I get on, but 1,000fpm is my target, so it gives me something finite to aim for.
My short-winged 1,600cc Turbulent could do it, so why not WGN?
Yours, Bob
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Donald
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Posted Monday, October 14, 2013 @ 01:59 AM
Bob I'm amazed to read that a Turbulent could manage 1,000 fpm with a 1600cc VW up front. No, I'm amazed it could do it at all and if that little airframe could manage it then why not the RF4 indeed.
A second set of plugs with associated ignition system is going to cost you some weight though, but maybe you intend or speculate on something other than a heavy magneto. And I'm not sure from photographs I've seen that the pilot has too much scope for significant weight reduction.
We will, of course, read with interest your progress towards your goal. Good luck.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Monday, October 14, 2013 @ 01:28 PM
Of course a Turb's max weight is just 620 pounds (281kg, versus an RF4D's 390) which helps.
And back then I weighed 170lb, versus my current 185lb (77kg vs 85kg).
Also I cleaned up its dreadful Rollason intake manifold and made new, Fournier-like cowlings and spinner, plus custom spats (wheelpants) and a few other tweaks, including a magnificent Steve Thompson propeller.
Once, on a cold day but with a warm engine and less than full fuel, I made 1,000 feet precisely one minute from opening the throttle to start the take-off.
WGN's dual plugs are already there, and the ignition module is small, light and electronic, but will cause a cowling bump, and of course I'll have to wait the usual ages before Francis Donaldson clears it. He currently has five of my mods on his desk, so that one will have to wait until 2014.
Eugenio's light, clean cowlings should make a difference.
The cold air inlet will be the final factor, but I shall have to devise, design and submit a carb heat system to Francis first.
There's a lot to do, and I'll keep you all informed, but if that heavy 2100cc American RF4 could make 1,000fpm, then I can!!!
Yours, Bob
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, October 16, 2013 @ 05:15 AM
Here's where Tony, Pat & Bobby have chopped out the tailwheel block.
It had been cracked all through the middle many years ago, but then 'repaired' merely by squeezing domestic PVA glue into the crack.
Of course, the glue didn't adhere, and the crack widened.
Since there was also a lot of oil staining there (that's where my extended breather pipe exits, and I used to fly a lot of negative G aerobatics) they've chopped out the whole thing for replacement.
Now we're waiting for the aircraft grade wood to be cut.
Soon, soon...
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Thursday, October 17, 2013 @ 12:23 PM
Yes Markku and thank you. Although a lot of this was simple water moisture, a lot of it is also oil staining.
It is under the cockpit, behind the firewall.
We've been trying to leach it out with acetone and MEK but I fear much will have to be cut out and replaced.
Waiting for aviation-approved spruce to be delivered on Monday.
Meanwhile, more leaching tomorrow.
Yours, Bob
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Markku
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Posted Thursday, October 17, 2013 @ 04:00 PM
Hi Bob
Normally if you have some wooden parts stained with oil, it's better to replace them. The oil makes the wood and plywood softer, and reduce the structure strenght significantly.
Markku
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Jorgen
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Posted Friday, October 18, 2013 @ 05:12 AM
Thanks Bob,
Fascinating (although a little scary) pictures! I vow to wipe the underside more carefully in the future.
As a side note, the wooden blocks you dismantled are fundaments for the rudderpedals, right? Have you thought of moving the original, curved block forward and screw it into the transverse forward wall of the wheel well, thus eliminating the extra blocks?
Another question- the rear end is prone to rotting on Fourniers- how bad was it there and were the ventilation holes (there should be two- on each side of the lower stringer, right?) open? Would you please be so kind as to measure the thickness of the rear block/wall so I can check that the ventilation holes are in the correct spot?
May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 27, 2013 @ 05:23 PM
Of course, you were all correct. That oil soakage was too bad to ignore.
Also, it seems that the 'new' fuselage fitted in 1972 was not actually new after all, because, under the many layers of red and white paint was a layer of blue!
Furthermore, there had been significant underfloor repairs, the fuselage lower sides were not level, and despite having been re-bored in 1972, the wing mounting holes were offset and also not level.
This would account for why 'WGN never won any races, nor appeared in any displays until I bought it, and was the least popular Fournier at Sportair.
Nevertheless, it was a shock to walk in late one morning and see my floor on the floor!
Bobby says "Don't worry, this will make everything easier and quicker!"
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 27, 2013 @ 05:37 PM
Doesn't the fuselage look odd when viewed from underneath?
We (by which I mean Tony, Pat and Bobby) will be so glad to have the drawings so generously made available to us.
I've given up tearing out my hair. There's no longer much of it left, and it doesn't do any good anyway.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 27, 2013 @ 05:43 PM
It turned out that about one third of the cockpit floor was not even glued properly to the underside of the fuselage, with no effective glueing at the firewall at all!
Forward fuselage bulkhead is now repaired, ready for drilling holes for the wing bolts, using Bobby's superb custom-made jig.
The fuel tank has been crack-checked and found to be fine, so that's a relief.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Sunday, October 27, 2013 @ 05:52 PM
...and the wing's progressing, with the new outrigger sockets bolted in place.
We're waiting for our inspector, Kevin, to return from holiday before we (they) can glue the D-box patches in place.
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Markku
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Posted Monday, October 28, 2013 @ 06:11 AM
Hi Bob
Thank's for sharing those sad news, however it's best to replace those oil contamined parts. Make sure, that before you glue the new floor, that the old structure glue surface is absolutely oil free (not contamined), otherwise you will have a poor joint again.
Markku
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jb92563
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Posted Tuesday, October 29, 2013 @ 09:56 AM
If thats going to be a chronic oil gathering location it might be a good place for a thin layer of FG to keep the oil off the wood.
It must be all that inverted flying causing oil spilleage and then gravity sends it all down to the undersides between sessions.
--------------------
Ray
RF4D #4057 N-1771 Rectimo 1400cc
http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/FournierRF4D
http://www.touringmotorgliders.org
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, November 6, 2013 @ 04:41 PM
I think the front end oil-soaking happened before my ownership, because my breather tube exits at the tailwheel and the engine isn't leaky.
Also my oil is black with the molybdenum disulphide, whereas the staining oil is clear oil and initially looked liked simple water damp.
It has not been a good month on several fronts. Info to follow.
Meanwhile, at last it's coming back together.
Tony's made a lovely job of spraying the forward fuselage ready for re-assembly.
The floor will be glued into place after everything else has been put in there.
Bobby keeps saying "It will be quicker this way", but it was all supposed to be back together and ready to fly by now!
Bob
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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV
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Donald
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Posted Wednesday, November 6, 2013 @ 05:18 PM
Frustrating I'm sure but think how much more comfortable you'll feel next time you load up the G meter. You'll not be wondering if the bottom's going to fall out of your world.
Incidentally, Tony looks about as tidy and organised as myself in the matter of his workshop.
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Bob Grimstead
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Posted Wednesday, November 6, 2013 @ 05:19 PM
Here's the fuel tank, crack-checked (satis), re-painted and re-corked, all ready to go back in.
and here it is, back in place at last.
Finally my little aeroplane is coming back together, a month late, but now slowly progressing.
Tony and I spent the evening at the George & Dragon (pub) drinking Doombar to celebrate.
The main delay (of several) has been in trying to find four thin planks/sheets of aircraft-quality Sitka spruce.
Three of one metre by 150mm by 12mm (that's three feet by 6in by 1/2 in) and one thinner at 8mm (3/8 in).
We got the ply easily enough from Dudley Pattison of Swindon Timber, and what a great guy he is.
But we have spent a fortune on phone calls and I have driven more than 1,000 miles and wasted many days calling in favours and driving from one possible source to another, but nobody seems to have decent spruce other than in thin strips.
In some ways it has been very pleasant. I have renewed some old friendships and acquaintances and met some legendary folk whom I had not previously had the pleasure of meeting. They were all extremely helpful. and I have since learned a lot about aviation spruce, but only one guy, Matt Pettit, was eventually able to help me, and even then he had trouble fulfilling the precise order.
An acceptable quantity should arrive at my home tomorrow (at significant, but happily accepted expense) and when it does I shall scoot along to the workshop with it, so that Bobby, Pat and Tony can make WGN's new floor.
Incidentally, I know that we are all very well aware that RF4s were actually made from pine or Douglas fir, but the drawings say 'spruce', so spruce it must be.
More on this later.
Yours, Bob
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Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV
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