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Please remember that people from all over the world read and post on this forum, and that every country has its own rules, regulations and standards. This forum is based in the USA and so much of the information posted here is for the benefit of people who operate aircraft in the experimental/exhibition or experimental/racing categories. Advice given on this forum may be region specific. A person from Europe, for example, may make suggestions perfectly appropriate for a U.S reader, although not acceptable in his home country!

Please take this into account and carefully consult the authorities, standards and approved documentation where you fly.
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SteveBeaver
General

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Location: Columbus, Ohio - USA
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Posted Saturday, December 17, 2016 @ 02:47 PM    YIM

As the time approaches to cover and paint the RF4, I am contemplating the difficulty and the danger of painting it. Just where can I paint it, and how can I safely transport the aircraft to and from such a location. Not easy with such a long one piece wing. Then there is the choice of finishing materials. I have used Polyfiber products for 5 aircraft so I have some experience with it, but it is expensive, smelly and hazardous to apply, particularly if Ranthane or Aerothane is used as a finish coat.

These considerations have me thinking about Oratex. Obvious Bob G had a considerable learning curve to climb, but having done so would you consider posting a summary of your experience here Bob? With one aircraft under your belt, would you recommend the product? What are its best and wost attributes?

Looking forward to your advice.

Bob Grimstead
Captain

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Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
Registered: Dec 2006
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Posted Saturday, December 17, 2016 @ 11:20 PM  

Hi Steve,

I had intended giving you all a full, step-by-step account of my work with Oratex, including what few difficulties I encountered, compromises I had to make and the success I achieved. I wanted to do this because I think Oratex is a super new material. It takes some getting used to and it is almost as expensive as the combination of other fabrics and their paint systems, but it is quick and easy to apply, needs no significant special equipment (compressor, masks, suits, paint booths etc) and results in a significant weight reduction. My British RF4D weighed 9kg (twenty-plus pounds) less after re-covering only its wings and fuselage with Oratex (but not either of the stabilizers nor any of the control surfaces).

I was forced to discontinue this process of publishing my findings and achievements on this forum when Tony Hoskins submitted two Mandatory Occurrence Reports to Britain's Civil Aviation Authority, followed by months and months of further pestering of the CAA, the Light Aircraft Association (the certifying body for my British Fournier) the Type Certificate holder EIS, and individual senior officers of both organisations. He admits to having generated an e-mail stream of more than four hundred!!! e-mails.

In these documents Hoskins alleged (among other utterly untrue things) that:
I was not a fit person to work on my Fournier.
I was not being supervised.
My work was not being inspected and signed off.
I was doing everything wrong.
I was using incorrect materials and processes.
I was working in conditions too cold for Oratex.
I was working in conditions too damp for Oratex.

Among many other completely erroneous allegations.

Not one of those things was true, but Hoskins's obsessive persistence resulted in some inconvenience to me so, sorry, but I am not going to share on this forum anything more about working with Oratex on my British Fournier.

Yours, Bob

--------------------
Flying and displaying Fournier RF4Ds VH-HDO and G-AWGN, building replica RF6B G-RFGB and custodian of RF6B prototype F-BPXV

Donald
Command Sergeant Major

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Location: Scotland
Registered: Jan 2007
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Posted Sunday, December 18, 2016 @ 12:59 PM  

So I guess Mr Hoskins won't expecting a Christmas card over the next week.

For my part I find the outcome rather sad simply because, while I haven't always agreed with things you have opined about on this forum, (eg. carb jet sizes) you have been very prolific in your past postings and that has made this a livelier place than it otherwise would have been. And while I will probably never recover my RF3 in Oratex your perspective as a user of the system would have been interesting.

Also I don't really get why the CAA would be particularly exercised about what people write on an internet forum. You should read some of the stuff that gets posted by Brits on other aviation forums (fora?)! Rabid insanity, some of them!

However, I understand that you've been somewhat through the grinder over the re-covering/rebuilding of WAGN and now seek a quieter, more hassle-free life, and that's OK too, but I hope you don't entirely retire from this place.

All the best.
Donald

Jorgen
Captain

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Location: Lund, Sweden
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Posted Monday, December 26, 2016 @ 00:06 AM  

Hello Fellow Fournieteers,
Happy Holidays. Thanks for sharing your ordeal Bob, I too have had similar experiences which has made me less prone to share information and enthusiasm that is so absolutely vital to continued Fourniercation. Indeed, things like this can be interpreted as an attack on free speach itself and needs to be met with an attitude of "-I don't agree with your method of recovering an RF 4, but I am prepared to die for your right to express them!!!"

One possible way to reduce the risk of beeing accused of this or that is to share information but with a deniablility option. Either post using pseudonyms or let the famous "buddy of mine" be the main character of the story. On other forums I often blame "my hamster" for any invconveniences. Most of us on here know each other well enough to decipher the info anyway.

Above all, don't let the destructive forces win. Flying is fun and flying a Fournier is the funniest thing you can do. We selected few have an obligation to share the fun we have, there are just so many unfortunate out there that never get to experience what we do.

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

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