Posted by Bob Brock on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 @ 07:34 PM:
I have been doing a few tests on the fuselage... the most recent paint came off quickly as it was never really on correctly. The original paint is another matter. Here is a link to a picture I just took showing what I believe to be the layers... paint, primer, cotton fabric and of course wood.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=Bomar1&target=PHOTO&id=5395196512521687474&aid=5395196504647658561&authkey=Gv1sRgCIfSrNv5vKfyngE&feat=email
Chuck (RF-5b member) thinks that I should just sand the whole covering off and use MEK to remove whatever fabric might be left.... any thoughts??
I tried some paint remover and it seems to make a mess. Also, I do not want to do anything that might soften the wood glue.
My plan so far is to cover the fuselage in fiberglass and the wings in Poly Fiber products.
Feel free to make comments of suggestions. Thanks
Posted by Markku on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 07:59 AM:
Hi Bob
I grinded most of the paint first, including the green factory primer. After that the easiest way to remove the fabric is to dissolve the glue-lack with acetone: take a thick rag, pour some acetone, so that it is properly wet, place it on the grinded surface, cover the rag with plastic to prevent evaporation, wait a minute andd take off the olld fabric.
This operation doesn't harm the plywood skin nor the glue, just avoid to grind any holes to fabric, then it is easier to remove and plywood will be untoched.
Posted by jb92563 on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 10:55 AM:
I guess the whole point of the recover is to remove any flaking or cracks, seal the surface to protect the wood from moisture and provide a nice smooth surface for the new paint.
If the base material is still in good shape and is well attached then perhaps just sanding down to the primer and glassing over that would be good.
I wonder how much weight is saved by getting all the fabric and paint off? Thats not why people remove all of it is it?
The only other reason I can think of to remove the original fabric is to repair the ply skin.
Of course if it is all cracked down to the wood or seperating then that is another story altogether.
Since it is so hard to get the original cotton and paint off it seems like it is nicely done in the first place, and you could use that to your advantage as an extra barrier from the elements.
Just expressing some thoughts for feedback as I am not very experienced in aircraft coverings and just done a few PolyFiber patches etc.
Ray
Posted by dannparks on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 11:32 AM:
Hi Bob,
Be sure to take a look at the threads "Covering systems" and "Removing old fabric" in this section to see the details of what I am going through removing the old fabric -- and see some good advice from members. It is/will be a very time consuming process. The Jasco paint/epoxy remover does not seem to harm the wood or glue and does a very nice job of clearing off all the old material, although it takes a lot of time. Recovering with fiberglass will also take more time and effort than I was hoping it would, but the results should be very nice.
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Posted by Sam M. on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 01:50 PM:
We used a heat gun and pliers. It took two days but we got everything off.
Posted by SteveBeaver on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 08:30 PM:
Remember to use the Search function on this forum. Fabric removal has been covered quite extensively here:
http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=Z7ESIol7qJ7W7Tk68R53VMhOJy&forum=11&thread=550
Posted by Bob Brock on Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 09:20 PM:
Thanks for all the insights and ideas... of course the subject has been covered but there are still new ideas. I tried both suggestions from Dann Parks and Chuck, et al, ... thanks!! It worked. Is there one best way to do it?? I don't know. Here is the progress from this afternoon.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=Bomar1&target=PHOTO&id=5395589119883582114&aid=5395589091174489697&authkey=Gv1sRgCNeQ0JqMvY-MrQE&feat=email
I realize that for some of the pilots who have been around the RF-4D for years or even decades, most of this stuff is well known... but it is new to me. The Forum has been a big help and I appreciate the progress made by others. No doubt I will ask many dumb questions and even questions which have been addressed in some depth. I would like to think that my association with N7725 will result in a few new ideas that might help someone else. The challenge is to keep the excitement going strong.
Posted by dannparks on Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 01:09 AM:
Nice job, Bob. You've inspired me to start on my fuselage. Sanding it down a bit first seems to make the paint remover more effective since it doesn't have to cut through the surface of the paint, and there is less paint to soften. Maybe it won't be as difficult as I thought. I like your tilting, rolling stand too.
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Posted by Jorgen on Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 07:35 AM:
Great job Mr Brock,
nice going. I can´t help but wonder what all the neighbours think when they roll out their lawnmowers to do their thing and you get your Fourner out and do your (quite different) thing. Maybe you´ll inspire people to expand their lives a bit 
May the 4´s be with you/ Jörgen
Posted by Bob Brock on Monday, November 2, 2009 @ 08:34 PM:
Greetings... OK, there does not seem to be an easy way to get the paint and fabric off the fuselage; however, I did find a neat way to get the last of the cotton off... MEK, covered by a cloth to keep it wet and a steel wool pad to get the last of the cotton and glue off... here is the progress so far.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=Bomar1&target=ALBUM&id=5399666785547499169&authkey=Gv1sRgCK2vnYLvnOK3Wg&feat=email
I should have the top side down to the wood in a day or two, then I will turn the fuselage over and do the underside. I tried a heat gun with mixed results.... sometimes the cotton section lifted will fly off on fire... perhaps it is too much heat. Anyway, the MEK works fine as long as I can do it outside. A few more days before rain so I should get it done. The dolly works great.
Posted by jb92563 on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 @ 11:44 AM:
Wow, nice job.....looks like a brand new aircraft, and the wood quality is excellent.
I'll bet your starting to think about a paint scheme already.
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Posted by Sam M. on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 @ 06:18 PM:
Rowena here.... Really, the easiest way to remove the fabric, paint and all is to heat it up and peel it off. It leaves clean plywood underneath. The heat (we used a heat gun) softens the dope that is holding everything onto the wood. Once softened, the paint will bubble up, work and edge up and grab with some plyers to avoid burning your fingers. Peel slowly working the heat in front of you. This method takes off, paint, fabric and all the dope on the wood in one easy step. It took us two days to remove all the covering and we had a couple of heat guns going at one time. Any remaining dope residue stuck to the wood comes off easily with nitrate thinner after the cotton is peeled away. Give it a try.
Posted by Bob Brock on Friday, November 6, 2009 @ 12:25 PM:
Sam... right you are!!
I just didn't have the correct technique. Perhaps these images will help others as it took me way too long to figure it out... I started by using the heat gun and scraper as I would to remove paint... too much heat and the cotton fabric is toast and breaks, and too little, it also breaks in the "pull." But with the right heat, pull and even angle of pull, it really works nice. In any event, I have all the paint and fabric off the fuselage so I will start a new thread on covering the fuselage. I would guess it took me about 3-4 days total if I had worked on it all the time.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=Bomar1&target=ALBUM&id=5401024258496604577&authkey=Gv1sRgCL7IypqvvL7XQQ&feat=email
Thanks again for all your help and encouragement.
Posted by dannparks on Sunday, May 30, 2010 @ 07:41 PM:
Heat gun to the rescue!
I was dreading trying to remove the fabric with chemicals, so I went back through the forum threads and re-read the suggestions about heat guns. I had tried the gun earlier, but didn't get the paint hot enough. With a bit more heat it peels off in big chunks. I've got most of it striped in a couple of days.
Thanks Rowena and all the others who suggested this. I can see light at the end of the tunnel!
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