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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Thursday, August 25, 2011 @ 11:32 AM
Thanks Jorgen.
Yesterday was the first day of genuine cutting, drilling, sanding. I probably would fit and measure 3-5 times before cutting. It was a luxury working with the polycarbonate for the open cockpit mod. If I messed up a cut or hole, I could merely cut out a new piece. Not so much this time.
But....so far, the plastic drill is working well. I've found that at moderate speeds (no rpms show on the hand drill...but a little faster than slow), if I use very light pressure, the drill bit will talk to me. If it is squeeking, then I'm using the lightest pressure possible and still have it cut. The shavings are more like a fluff rather than flakes. When the bit exits the back side of the plastic, there is no grabbing just the slightest loss of resistance. I'm also moving the bit around the hole some to "polish" the hole before extracting the bit. So far, I feel good about this approach.
The Rotozip has worked well. The belt sander also seems to be doing well. The belt on the sander is not getting loaded up with plastic with the acrylic canopy material as it did with the softer polycarbonate.
So far, I'm also feeling good about the shrink wrap on the screws. It has held up moderately well to so many times of screwing the canopy down, starting a hole, then unscrewing the canopy, finishing the hole - repeat. Some of the screws will need to be recovered as the shrink wrap is showing some wear. I think this is a good sign that it is reasonably tough -- but soft enough to provide reasonable cushioning.
One thing I learned in the polycarbonate has to do with drilling the holes. You are trying to align a hole through a 1/8" material to the hole on the frame. If you just drill a hole, it's easy for it not to be aligned well. So, I've found that the best technique for me is to try to figure out the best spot, place the bit on my best guess as to the right location, start the bit for a second or so and stop. You've just made a spot (slight indendation) on the plastic. Check the alignment of that spot. If it's off to one side, don't start a new one. Go back to that indentation and drill at an angle toward the place you want...straighten the drill (so it is now perpendicular to the plastic) -- stop -- and now you have a slightly larger spot (indentation). Check the alightment with the target hole. Keep adjusting the alignment of your drilling pretty much all the way to the finish.
If you get the early stage right and the bit is making a shaft in the material, you're alignment is probably right on. But I keep trying to follow the right path all the way through the material. Yes, sometimes I end up with a hole that is not perfectly symmetrical, but it still is just large enough in the right places for the fastener. The way plastic moves, having a little more gap or movement in a hole is not a bad thing, so I don't worry about it. It's all underneath the head of the fastener....so, I simply don't care. I'm not having to drill a second hole or go through heroics to enlarge a misaligned hole (which is the most important to me).
The hangar as been fairly warm, about 77 degrees F -- which probably gives me a little buffer for my lack of experience.
Probably the most challenging thing for me has been the retired pilots/A&P's who have stopped by to tell me how they'd never do any of this to acrylic and how the earth probably will come to an end due to my efforts. They seem convinced that the Acrylic Monster will destroy the project. Being retired, they can take forty-five minutes to say, "I wouldn't do that."
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Bob Grimstead
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 05:40 AM
Hi James,
Believe me, it's a long, tedious job, but very much worthwhile when it's done.
I love the way you say: | Quote: |  | | First I straightened and repainted the frames. |
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I have found that simple little task to be near-impossible.
I tried to do it on my Aussie RF4 and never did get it quite straight before fitting the replacement canopy, and then Tony thought he'd got my British one straight, but once the new canopy was in place it twisted again and no longer quite fitted properly!
Just another of those frustrating Fournier jobs, I guess.
Keep at it, slow and steady, and you will be so pleased with the result.
Yours, Bob
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, August 26, 2011 @ 11:11 AM
Hi Bob. About the frames, I didn't say how straight I got them. But, they're a bit better. At some point I felt they were as close as I could get them without just damaging them. (I firmly believe the old adage, "If it ain't broken, keep fixing it 'till it is!)
Some progress yesterday. Spent almost the entire day on the curve around the back of the passenger seat. I'd trim. It would fit a little better which would move the trim line. I'd trim, the line would move. Many times over.
I also came across the first of my errors. I firmly believe that the proper way to install these is to start in the middle and work outward. I became so engrossed in getting the window vents parallel to the frames and even with each other, that I fixed the portion under the windows first and moved toward the other side. So, as I start to work on the other side, I'm think the canopy is torquing a little as I attach it. The forward section of the canopy extended so far beyond the support that I couldn't clamp it. I should have trimmed off that extra material so I could properly clamp it to the fram from the beginning. So, now when I clamp it down, I see the gap increase at the rear of the canopy -- which implies that the entire piece is torquing a little.
So yesterday I removed all the fasteners and just put on the screws in the back center, then clamped the front center, then started working my way forward on each side (attaching screws as I went into the existing holes). When I did it that way, the forward end showed a misalignment of the canopy holes and frame holes of 1/16-1/8". Granted, just a slight movement of the canopy on the frame can produce that much change. So, I'm not sure that when I did it, that I even had the forward end aligned properly. It was near the end of the day. So, I left it to get a fresh look at it today to better assess if it's a real problem and what I feel I want to do about it.
In general, the Acrylic Gods did not smash this part of the universe, despite the fears of the hangar vistors.
The acrylic is tough enough that I don't make as good a progress with my hand tools as I did on the polycarbonate. So, my hand trimming while it's still on the frame is limited. (Which means I end up taking it off and working on it with power tools on the trimming stand more than I expected.)
My rear cockpit has two sections to the canopy (some don't). I noticed that the support between the two sections uses #6 screws. As my A&P and I looked at it, we couldn't see any reason why you'd move from #4 to #6 screws for that one support. A #6 will make a bigger hole, but really won't have any more useful holding power. Quite possibly in the past, the metal tabs were stripped out and someone just went to the next larger screw. I'm stopping by an aircraft supply this morning to get some Timmerman nut plates for #4 screws to place behind the tabs on that section so I can use the same sized fastener around the canopies. At some point it might be evident why a larger fastener was used....but the #4's seem more than strong enough.
Did a lot of cutting with the Rotozip yesterday including the more detailed cut for the canopy hinge. Seemed to work fine.
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Saturday, August 27, 2011 @ 11:26 AM
Slow but steady progress.
Determined that the torquing issue was due to an area with a high spot. Once trimmed further, no problem.
The Timmerman nut plates have worked well on the forward cross support. Especially since the nut plates can shift a little, it makes a lot more sense to use nut plates in the larger holes, allowing the canopy to move some on the frame. For the most part, had to use 1/2" long #4 screws across the support where 3/8" #4 screws have been used around the rest of the canopy.
My wife asked if I was picking up speed with all this experience. Unfortuately, no. I'm not spending the extensive time I did in the beginning to develop a general plan for the installation. But it's just a long process (for me....someone else could possibly go faster). I still chase trim lines. I'll carefully mark a line. Trim to that line. Install the canopy only to find I need another 1/16" or slightly more. Trim to that line, and still find that as the canopy settled into that shape, I need to trim more. As I get near the end of the rear canopy, the cycle time increases because there are more screws that have to be removed and replaced each time.
In general, the fit seems ok. I have made the fit tighter on the port side than the starbord side (with the hinges). The port side will expand when I have the weatherstrip installed. The port side won't as it will be constrained by the hinges.
One odd thing is the latch. I haven't seen an adjustment, yet the latch for the open cockpit frames seems to have a different (better) fit than the latch on the canopy frames. On the canopy frames, when the latch is closed, there is a larger gap between the latch and the pin on the fuselage. The upward push of the weatherstip will close some of that gap, but I'm not convinced it will be enough to make a good fit. Doesn't make sense that there's no adjustment (other than maybe bending the frames). I probably just haven't recognized the adjustment device...or will have to figure out a fix.
Two more cuts/trims on the rear canopy and I'll move on to the front canopy.
I suppose at some point I'm going to have to consider what to do about exterior trim. Most canopies seem to have painted trim over frames. Mine had black tape. I'm open to suggestions. Does anyone have any preferences or ideas about what would work better?
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 12:01 PM
After several more hours of cutting and trimming, the canopy looks just about the same, but I'm able to move on to the front. I have to remove the canopy to install the weather stripping, so I'll wait until then to use very fine sandpaper to polish the edges.
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Sunday, August 28, 2011 @ 10:27 PM
I was making great progress today....all up until I cracked the front canopy.
Having spend all of last week just installing the rear canopy, can't say whether I was tired, hasty, careless -- it's all just language.
The short of it is, I was trimming a long edge of the canopy. To secure it, I moved a clamp around the back side of my trimming stand to get it away from the belt sander. Where I placed it and applied pressure, was too curved and the canopy popped under pressure. No one's fault but my own. Has nothing to do with the quality of the canopy. I simply should have kept the clamps on the edge I was trimming (where it was flatter) and just moved them as I got to them.
I've sent an email to Thermotec to see how much a replacement front canopy will cost. Between cost, their schedule & available temperatures in the hangar, will see what can happen this year.
Will post as I know more.
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Jorgen
Unregistered
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Posted Monday, August 29, 2011 @ 06:12 PM
James,
I'm sorry to hear that and it's really unfair that you should be cursed with this mishap when you've been so careful in your work. Thanks for sharing the process with the rest of us, I think your experience might reduce the risk of something similar happening to others doing similar work. There is always the possibility to stop the crack with a drillhole and fill it up + grind it down, but I guess it will still show and thus might be a chronic thorn in your side. I'm however confident you will overcome this obstacle and eventually have a nice set of shining new canopies.
May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Wednesday, August 31, 2011 @ 00:49 AM
Thanks Jörgen.
I went back to the hangar for the first time and decided the crack was not as large as I remembered it (when I left in disgust). It is about an inch and a half long.
Thermotec wants approximately full price for a replacement. When I figure the total costs of getting the canopy to Seattle, it is close to $2k. Even if I got the new canopy, there are so many cuts, drill holes, etc. -- there's no insurance that something might not happen to the replacement.
At a time when there are some new financial constraints at work, $2k for an inch and a half crack is a lot of money. (Would be a lot under any circumstance.)
So, I stop-drilled the crack. I'm continuing the installation. If I can complete the installation with no new mishaps -- I'll keep it. I'll leave perfection to others. Nothing else on the glider is perfect, the new canopy will fit right in. Sort of like getting your first ding or stone chip on your new car. If I make some other mistake on the canopy that introduces more issues -- then I'll consider replacing it.
btw, I have used the thin liquid "cement" (solvent) on cracks in canopies without much luck. After some research Weld-on 16 from IPS seems to be a viable alternative that does a better job of filling voids in the crack. Will try it and post how well it seems to work.
[Edit by JamesB on Thursday, September 1, 2011 @ 10:15 AM]
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Sunday, September 4, 2011 @ 10:50 AM
Yesterday was the first day that the canopies were attached and trimmed to the point where they could be on their frames and closed all at the same time. Continued on to clean the front canopy. Used a countersink lightly on all the holes to debur them and give them a smooth edge. Used 150 then 220 sandpaper on all the edges. Then mounted it back on the frame. Haven't installed its vent window hardware yet. (I hope I have all the parts after two years on the shelf!) Will find out soon enough.
Via Collin, Dave Milner sent me a 2007 EAA article that descibes using a product called Plastifix to repair cracks and use a headlight restoration kit to smooth the repair afterwards. It seems promising, so have ordered the kits. Thanks, Dave.
I noted the canopy seal/gasket leaves gaps between the canopy frame & the fuselage in several places. The previous owners of RF5B put strips of household, foam weather stripping around the cockpit to seal those gaps. I'm going to look for a solution that will stay on the canopy frame. There may a way to build some thickness to the canopy seal in those places.
[Edit by JamesB on Sunday, September 4, 2011 @ 10:53 AM]
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Donald
Unregistered
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Posted Sunday, September 4, 2011 @ 03:42 PM
James, assuming your canopy is acrylic you might like to try this, but try it with some of your offcuts first. Run a little acetone into the crack and leave to dry. It seems to soften the material allowing it to 'weld' together. It's thin stuff and draws nicely into a crack, but do try it on a test piece first and leave to harden for a few days..
My own canopy has a rear corner broken before I bought the aircraft which someone tried to repair with polyester resin. That didn't work and caused striations in the surrounding acrylic. I've since 'glued' it together with acetone and reinforced the corner with aluminium.
Donald
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Monday, September 5, 2011 @ 00:40 AM
Thanks Donald.
I have had mixed results with acetone or solvents. If the pieces fit very well together (especially if they have machined surfaces), then clamping them and introducing the solvent can work really well. The more the break is irregular, has gaps or doesn't fit almost perfectly, the greater the chance that it won't work well.
In this case, I have the luxury of testing the Plastifix on the old canopy which had Plenty of cracks for practice.
Work went reasonably well today. Same sequence as the front with sanding edges & smoothing of holes for the fasteners.
When I tried to install the canopies with the new weather seals, I couldn't get the canopies to fit properly. So, I installed them without the weather seals. Once installed, I went around the edge of the canopies, sliding the seal between the canopy & frame, refastening as I went.
The holes drilled by Thermotec for the Mecaplex windows weren't quite aligned, but it didn't take much adjustment to get the windows on. With the weather stripping installed, the canopies fit a little different. I'd find a spot where the front & rear canopies were touching. Remove the rear canopy, adjust the gap, reinstall. Then find a new spot they were touching. After 5 iterations, I seemed to have a consistent, small gap between front & rear canopies.
After 11 hours working on it today, I decided to save the test flight for tomorrow.
Will decide later if I will add colored trim around the canopy seams. For now, it looks reasonable as it is.
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Jorgen
Unregistered
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Posted Monday, September 5, 2011 @ 03:15 AM
James,
I think that looks fantastic; chrystal clear. Looking at your ship now you can really appreciate what was written about the UK RF 5b "G-RFSB":
"-Omni-vision canopy"! I think the shape of your 3-part canopy is very nice, SE-UDI has the 2-part version. There might be another reason to leave the canopies without trim as you contemplate- you can keep an eye on any cracks from screw holes and check the seal.
May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen
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JamesB
Unregistered
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Posted Tuesday, September 6, 2011 @ 01:06 PM
Although I don't have experience with other RF5B canopies, the new canopies from Thermotec are significantly more distortion-free than the canopies that were on the glider. I don't know the source of the old ones, but I assume they were not original.
Old canopies:
New canopies:
So, at this point, I'd recommend Thermotec as a source for canopies. They have the molds and seem to make a decent product. To my order I did at a modest amount to have the acrylic contain a UV filter and included the Mecaplex vents with small vent "scoops" built into the vent window as an option to cupping my hand out the window while I'm trying to fly. They seem to work well.
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eugenio
Unregistered
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Posted Thursday, September 8, 2011 @ 01:19 PM
Do never use acetone or other similar chemicals on the plexiglas or it will start crazing. The best solution is to use Acrifix glue (a specific product). If you want to seal the crack you have to enlarge it to let the glue fill the crack, then when is set you can sand smooth the surface with 500, 1000 and 2000 grit paper then with some polish you will have the surface shining like new.
Eugenio
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