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RF-4 Canopy frame repair questions printer friendly version
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Bob Brock
Unregistered

Posted Sunday, March 4, 2012 @ 02:16 PM  

Greetings... first, all of the posts on RF-5 canopies have been very instructive.. thanks... but I have a few questions about bending the 4's frame back into shape. If you have experience with the canopy frames and repairs, I really want your advice. If I am careful I believe I can use the plastic canopy as it is in good shape (or until I crack it).

Here is a link to some pictures so you will know what I am talking about... the N7725 canopy came open at about take-off speed many years ago... it still works, but not well.. the owner at that time sold the aircraft. I think a new plastic canopy was used (clearly not the original) but the frame was never repaired or if it was bent back, it was never correct.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=Bomar1&target=ALBUM&id=5716096333687077761&authkey=Gv1sRgCMzkhaGT7I_RoAE&feat=email

Before I work on the repair, I would welcome any advice as to how the repair should be done. I really don't want to make it worse.

Additionally, any suggestions about mounting the plastic canopy would also be greatly appreciated. For example, do you use anything between the steel tubes and the plastic to cushion the fit? What kind of weather stripping should be used? Do you cement or silicone the plastic canopy to the frame our is it held only by the screws? Are there some screws that work best? How tight do you make them? And do you use anything on the treads to help hold the screws that are not tightened as them might be on sheet metal.

Thanks again for your assistance.... just assume I know nothing you and you would be correct most of the time. Without the Forum and assistance, I would be lost.

Cheers,

Bob Grimstead
Unregistered

Posted Sunday, March 4, 2012 @ 10:04 PM  

Hiya Bob,

I have replaced the acrylic canopy bubbles on both of my RF4s. Neither was completely successful.

Both frames were a little distorted, so I tried to straighten them. One had previously been broken and brazed, and the other was not quite square and true.
They are made from hard steel with a thin wall -- I would guess 4130, but it is possible to bend each part cold if done with care.

The problem is that, with such a complex shape, I was never able to get the frame shape exactly right. I could get one side to fit perfectly, and then maybe another, but when I tried to get one of the arches right, the opposite end would become skewed.

I just bent the Australian one across my knees, pushing and pulling where needed.
My inspector/buddy/glider repair expert Tony H did the English one, and made a much better job of it, although it still was not quite perfect.

In both cases I just had to accept that the eventual shape I obtained (after a couple of days of wrestling with them) was as good as I was going to get.

I screwed a ready-trimmed, second-hand canopy bubble on to my Australian frame and it worked out fairly well, but the English one did not turn out quite so well.

http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=jKcRr5wDbtUSAaTqZxaoaLqou6&forum=11&thread=391

The British canopy bubble (from Weiss, with Eugenio's mould) is great, and vision could not be bettered, but the frame no longer fits properly. I have to pull the pin about an inch rearwards before it will drop into its socket, and the bubble edges no longer quite meet the airframe properly all around. What is particularly frustrating is that before finally fitting the bubble, and during the trimming of the bubble and drilling of the fixing screw holes, the canopy frame fitted very well.
Unfortunately, somehow during the final fitting of the bubble the thing got distorted in some way.

One day, when I have seen, closely inspected and photographed Eugenio's canopy, I shall probably remove my British bubble and re-fit it using Eugenio's Sikaflex method.

I could not originally do this because my British inspectors (both of them) wanted the canopy to be attached by its original, certified method -- multiple screws. Now one of my inspectors will accept that its primary means of attachment can be with Sikaflex, so long as some screws are used as a back-up.

In your case Bob, I think I would carefully bend the canopy frame to straighten it as much as possible, although you will probably have to get somebody to replace that right side rail with a straight piece of 4130 (easily bought from Aircraft Spruce) to get the thing right. I think the whole frame is just brazed together, so replacing one rail should not be too difficult.

Then I would clamp the frame into place in the cockpit.

Then I would glue the canopy into place with Sikaflex and leave it to set.

Fit screws at the four corners and perhaps in a couple of places along both side rails as back-ups.

Remove the clamps.

Do all this in the summer and it should be fairly straightforward, but do be warned that old acrylic is quite brittle and much less tolerant of being worked than new stuff.
One heartening thing is that new bubbles are now available from Todd's canopies if you do crack the thing.

Yours, Bob

--------------------

Bob Brock
Unregistered

Posted Sunday, March 4, 2012 @ 10:37 PM  

Bob... thanks a million. I must have missed the thread... it is perfect. I showed the frame to my IA and he has a master welder (Phil) who is going to replace the side tube. My IA told me to forget trying to bend the metal as I would most likely make it worse, i.e., fix one side and it well be out of shape on the other. So I shall follow the suggestions of you all who have experience... and use the products suggested by Eugenio. Again, thanks for getting me pointed in the right direction. I will keep you posted. Bob
Jorgen
Unregistered

Posted Monday, March 5, 2012 @ 01:05 PM  

Good points Fournieteers,
but another problem is that there might more than one direction...

I'm still very impressed with the canopy on SE-XST (former G-AVNX). There are no screws (with holes were cracks can start) attaching the bubble to the frame. The bubble is not original, it's from a glider (ASH-something), blue tinted and perfect optically. The frame is made from carbon fibre and I think Pete Well's, the former Fournieteer, now "Silence Twister"- pilot and UK agent with the firm "ZuluGlasstek" in the UK made it. He might have a tip or two on how to make a good RF 4 canopy.

May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen

[Edit by Jorgen on Monday, March 5, 2012 @ 01:07 PM]

jb92563
Unregistered

Posted Monday, March 5, 2012 @ 01:22 PM  

My canopy has screws with those shaped finishing washers under the head.

The do not seem very tight as I can tighten them if they seem a little too loose, however they are probably not cinched down too hard by design.

It is not the original canopy as I also have that in a box with a crack near the rear. Probably will make a nice convertible canopy some day if I ever get around to it.

The canopy/frame is a perfect contour fit, and perhaps still the original tube frame.

It looks like the P type strip around the entire frame perimeter has its flat section sandwiched between the Plexi and frame.

The plexi itself could stand a little bit of polishing or perhaps just a good cleaning but its not really too bad at this point.

[Edit by jb92563 on Monday, March 5, 2012 @ 04:07 PM]

--------------------

eugenio
Unregistered

Posted Monday, March 5, 2012 @ 04:03 PM  

The original canopy frame is done with mild steel brazed with Castolin (copper/silver alloy). 4130 is not a good choice because is harder to be formed and is not suitable for brazing because it cracks (it should be welded, gas or TIG).
Thin wall mild steel can be easily bent to the required shape using a wood pattern, so the easiest way to repair the frame is ..... to made a new one. Then the plexiglas can be screwed on the frame with a b shaped rubber seal with the leg pinched between the frame and the plexiglas, or can be glued with some polyurethanic sealant directly on the frame (like mine). The glued plexiglas has the advantage not to crack under the screws, but is harder to remove from the frame, just in case ....

Eugenio

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