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Aerocarb Performance printer friendly version
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jb92563
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:55 PM  

I noticed that the Aerocarb seems to be pretty sensitive to fuel presure in the gravity feed configuration.

I was just idling and putting the nose up to experience the RF4D's stall behavior and the engine began to sputter.
(The stall is preceeded by buffeting in my RF4D before the nose drops straight ahead)

In that nose high position it seems like the mixture leans even on full rich mixture.

Does the Zenith 28 carb do that as well?

I'm curious how the Zenith works when going vertical as well?

My 4 came with the Aerocarb installed but I also have the Zenith and am considering changing back.

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Sam M.
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 01:55 PM  

I have never had that problem even on the vertical line.
jb92563
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 02:12 PM  

Sam, are you using the Zenith 28 or are you using a custom ??? carb.

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Sam M.
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 03:04 PM  

http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=xdtMjunDyRkgBSl5CgqaiXURhp&forum=17&thread=479

Heres the thread

Jorgen
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 05:16 PM  

Hi Ray,
XST has the Zenith 28 with drilled out orifice (see the "Zenith RX 28" thread in the "Engines" section) and I´ve never noticed any spluttering as per your description, or signs of carb ice for that matter. I think you are wise to check up your carb and new 4, keep us updated please.

May the 4´s be with you/ Jörgen

Bob Grimstead
Unregistered

Posted Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 07:59 AM  

Hi Ray,

The Zenith 28 RXZ (completely standard) works fine in the vertical until you run our of airspeed.

I regularly fly a quarter vertical roll with a hammerhead at the top as the second figure in my display routine. I believe that, all the way up the vertical, the engine is running on the fuel in the float bowl, because with only aerobatic fuel aboard (15 litres, three U.S. gallons) the tank outlet is uncovered the moment you get past about 45 degrees nose-up. The engine usually keeps running throughout this figure, but it does stop after around ten seconds, so you have to be quick to kick at the top or the motor stops just as you need it for the yaw. That's because my 1400cc motor burns 15 litres per hour at full throttle, and the float bowl only holds (20ccs? 50ccs? I've forgotten) but I remeber that I calculated it as 13 seconds worth of full-throttle power. That's theoretical of course, so the ten seconds is about it.

If all you want to do is a vertical climb from 120 moph or so to a hammerhead at 40 or a canopy-down humpty-bump, or a tail-slide, there is more than enough fuel in the float bowl to keep the motor running throughout.

That's the problem with slide carburetors. They have no float bowl, and so, no fuel reservoir, which is why a simple bubble in the line will make your engine quit. This most ususally happens immediately after take-off on a warm day.

That's why I would junk your slide carb and fit a proper Zenith. sorry.

Yours, Bob

jb92563
Unregistered

Posted Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 12:51 PM  

In thinking a bit about your last comment it has become very clear to me that you really want a fuel reservior at the carb if your doing anything remotely aerobatic as even a nose high attitude, as I discovered, will change pressure or cut off the fuel supply.

The other option would be to have a presurized fuel system with a fuel pump.

So I figure I have a choice to make:

1) Install a fuel tank klunk pickup tube, add a low pressure fuel pump with return fuel circuit, and use the Aerocarb.

or

2) Use the Zenith 28 RX carb I have, drill the orfice out a bit bigger and use the tank fuel system as is.

However it sounds like Sam is having success with his Mikuni carb, and if it has a bigger float bowl capacity that might be an even better option.

Bob G, how do the Zenith and Mikuni float bowl capacities compare?

Perhaps I should look around and see what carbs have the biggest float bowl capacity that I could use
in the 28-32mm range?

Ideally, we want Throttle body fuel injection but thats just too complex at this point.

I believe that simplicity is related to reliability so the Zenith option is looking the best right now since there are no electrics necessary and its just a very simple system that has been proven to work and embraced by pilots a lot more experienced than me.

I'll take a look and see what I need to do to make the conversion back.

I'm curious what Dan thinks about these options since he has flown behind an Aerocarb before in the RV?

Perhaps that fuel system is designed differently?

[Edit by jb92563 on Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 01:05 PM]

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dannparks
Unregistered

Posted Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 04:40 PM  

Actually, My RV does NOT have an Aerocarb, it has an Ellison TBI -- which is a much more sophisticated device. It also has a fuel pump (2 of them), which I am beginning to think is manditory for these kind of throttle-body injection devices.

The Ellison works great in the RV and there are hunderds being used sucessfully in all sorts of experimental aircraft.

I'm taking a good look at the new Rotec carb. It would require a pump, but it looks like a clone of the Ellison for small engines.

I'm not sure how the Aerocarb would handle a fuel pump. It does not seem to have a "demand flow" type fuel regulator on it like the Ellison or the Rotec. I'll look at what they do in the Sonex.

Of course I can always but the carb back on it.

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Bob Grimstead
Unregistered

Posted Thursday, November 19, 2009 @ 10:08 AM  

Hi again Ray,

I'm sorry, but I'm in England right now with WGN, and the Mikuni is in Perth with HDO, so I can't compare float bowl capacities. I'll try to remember to do that when I get back.

Yours, Bob

jb92563
Unregistered

Posted Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:51 AM  

I looked in my aircraft parts bin and found a Mikuni Pumper carb that looks like it has a 32mm throat.

It is a pumper carb that presumably needs a pressure pulse to make the pumping happen and it does not have a float bowl, so probably is not much better than the Aero carb.

I did try some 20 degree up lines and down lines yesterday to see how the Aerocarb was behaving and with a 1/2 full tank it did not skip a beat.

I was looking at the Zenith 28 RXZ and cant help but wonder about the narrow looking intake.

Is there a way to determine the correct size of carb throat opening for a specific HP engine?

My thought is that the faster the air has to move through the carb the greater the atomization of fuel, which is good, but isn't carb icing potential increased with a narrow throat?

How do we know that the engine is even getting enough air mixed with the fuel? Runs rich if not?

I also think that having the engine driven or electric pump on a float carb would be an added safety measure.

Is anyone running a pump with the Zenith 28?

Just some thoughts for comment.

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