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jb92563
Unregistered
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 Posted Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 11:10 AM
I was wondering if anyone has any first flight advise or tips for the RF4D.
I will be taking a flight in the near future.
I have about 40 hours in my Grob 109 motor glider and 100 hrs in other pure gliders of numerous types.
Ray
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Bob Grimstead
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 11:35 AM
Hi Ray,
I have several people's different handling notes, which I'll bring down to the library and post in a couple of days.
Meanwhile, there are several air test articles (at least a dozen) on the cfiamerica web site, most of which have handling information in them.
Take a look.
Yours, Bob
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Collin
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 02:19 PM
Ray,
The RF4 is easy to fly and very fun! Just watch the wing tips they are low.
The flight manual can be down loaded from this link.
http://www.cfiamerica.com/images/RF4D_Flight_Manual-v2.3.pdf
Collin
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Jorgen
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 03:55 PM
Hi Ray,
I agree with Bob and Collin, the RF 4 is a blast to fly and if you are used to gliders you will find the landing is quite similar. Take off is straightforward, you just have to accelerate (slowly- only 40 hp) in the ground effect for a while before you reach safe climbing speed (about 70 mph).
Take your time to get familiar with the landing gear lock and take a peak up the wheel well so you get a feel for how it works (the latch slides along the semicircular arc and locks in the groves). Don´t operate the gear at low altitude and you'll be OK.
May the 4's be with you/ Jörgen
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jb92563
Unregistered
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Posted Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 06:28 PM
I'll check out all that suggested info in the next week or two.
I have read through the Manual and it gives a lot of good info.
Pilot reports are next.
Is the elevator touchy?
How effective are the spoilers?
Wing being low can I expect a long float in ground effect even with spoilers on landings?
I guess lowering a wing on takeoff runs in a croswind will not really work due to the outriggers so hopefully the
rudder/tailwheel is very effective at those speeds.
I did note the x-wind limit of about 15 mph? in the manual.
Ray
[Edit by jb92563 on Friday, September 4, 2009 @ 06:33 PM]
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Donald
Unregistered
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Posted Saturday, September 5, 2009 @ 04:15 AM
Ray, I have never flown a 4 but my 3 is probably very similar so here's my 2c.
In the air the 3 is a delight to fly. Of the 3 axes, yaw and pitch are lively but I wouldn't call them 'touchy'. Roll is the most leisurely but in that regard the 4 may be less so than the 3. Being aerobatic I'd expect the 4 to be better harmonised, but it's the air/ground transitions that are worthy of comment.
The guy I bought from told me to 'open the throttle, stick forward and keep her straight with rudder.'
Well, there's a little more to it than that as I later figured out and had confirmed when I translated the French handbook. Open the throttle and you have sufficient pitch authority to raise the tail, sure, but if you're slow on the rudder the aircraft is on a single point with the prop wash the only control force worth a damn. My handbook tells me to "Open the throttle smoothly and hold the stick aft for about 10 metres while the aircraft gains speed..." before raising the tail. That way you keep directional control with the tail wheel until you have aerodynamic control, which doesn't take much speed to achieve. I used to do it to a count of 4, so around 3 seconds I guess. You don't even have to hold the stick hard back, just keep the tail wheel in contact for the start of the run.
Crosswinds? They don't appear to be a problem and I've handled a few dillies. I use the 'wing low' method rather than the 'crab and kick straight' method and I find that by the time I'm at ground level the wing is close to level and crosswind isn't really difficult to handle. I may have touched outrigger first but I've never been aware of it. My guess is that by the time you're down the wing is so low that it's in the slower moving ground boundary layer.
Ground handling is very docile but that monotrack gear with no differential braking can present a particular difficulty. I have found it impossible to turn 180° out of a stiff wind. I'll get round about 80° before that big fin will weathercock me straight again and I either need a wing-walker or to get out and lift the tail round.
Spoilers are pretty effective, I find. I can land with then out or in but usually like them out as it gives a slightly higher nose attitude which better matches the 2 point attitude.
In your early days I'd suggest you decide no later than turn on to final what will be your control of choice during landing, spoiler or throttle. Put your hand on one or the other and keep it there. Getting them muddled in the flare will surprise you. Ask me how I know.
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SteveBeaver
Unregistered
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Posted Saturday, September 5, 2009 @ 09:59 AM
A lot of advice here - Hope you aren't overwhelmed by it  Let me give you an idea how hard an RF4 is to fly:
In both the examples I fly regularly, it the wind is light I can put my hands on my knees leaving the stick untouched, set the trim, open the throttle and steer with my feet. The lower wing picks itself up within a few feet, the tail comes up all by itself and the glider leaves the ground. A couple of feet in the air and I can lift my right hand to hold the stick for the first time.
Yet more proof that most airplanes can fly themselves better than I can fly them 
Of course I am not advocating this technique, merely using it to indicate how simple these things are to fly. Ground effect and dihedral are powerful forces when only 18" from the ground.
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Bob Grimstead
Unregistered
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Posted Saturday, September 5, 2009 @ 11:30 AM
Hi Ray,
My best advice would be don't fly in any crosswind for your first few flights and read all you can beforehand.
If you can't turn downwind on the ground, if there's space, a 270 turn the other way will usually get you round.
Good luck, enjoy it, but take care, they're extremely expensive to fix if you damage them.
Yours, Bob
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jb92563
Unregistered
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Posted Monday, September 14, 2009 @ 03:51 PM
Haaaa.....theres a thought, If I break it I buy it!
Thats one way to acquire an RF4D!
Just kidding of course.
It sounds like I won't have a problem as I have just as much difficulty ground driving the Grob 109 with the weather vane effects and the even lower 12 kt X-wind limit, although I have been able to make it look easy through enough practice.
I'll post the results of my first.
Still a few weeks off though.
Ray.
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eugenio
Unregistered
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Posted Tuesday, September 15, 2009 @ 07:05 AM
Just remember the RF4 is fitted with retractable landing gear, while you're used to the G109.............................
Each landing gear up costs a propeller, two outriggers.............and a stab to your pride................ usually no other damage.
Eugenio
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joethepro
Unregistered
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Posted Tuesday, September 15, 2009 @ 09:27 AM
I agree with steve I set trim, add power, steer with rudder, (don't worry about a little wheel hop in a cross wind) keep nose low after takeoff, retract gear (make sure you set firmly so it doesn't drop out hard) put hands in lap or hold stick with one finger and enjoy. For landing, speed to 70 mph, set trim upright, deploy gear (flip firm, push with rt leg to assure it is set) cut power to 2100 for downwind/base, cut power to idle for final, use air brakes to half to start more as needed, wing down into wind and rudder to keep straight on final, flare at start of runway will be equal to the amount of spoiler you have deployed get as close to the runway as you can and hold it there if you bounce hard go around if you bounce soft hang in there and ride it out with stick slightly back. general pts do all moves smoothly and lightly and you will be rewarded with great landings slap the stick around and you will be slapped as you should be by such a beautiful lady, have someone hold tail in flight level position (elevator even to the ground) while you sit in it to get a feel for t/o position, for best turning radius turn on outside outrigger (left turn lean on rt outrigger), to switch outriggers steer rudder away from desired turn then veer hard toward the desired direction do everything at half the speed and strength as the grob and enjoy you are about to have one of the best flight experiences of your life.
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Bob Grimstead
Unregistered
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 @ 10:35 AM
Hi again Guys,
Here are some scanned notes from other sources.
I always figure the more you read, the better you are prepared, and the more other folks' viewpoints, the better too.
Obviously, like the foregoing, I take no responsibility for any of this, it's just for your info.
And hey, don't you just love some of the archaic language?
Yours, Bob
[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Thursday, September 17, 2009 @ 10:36 AM]
[Edit by Bob Grimstead on Monday, September 21, 2009 @ 09:28 AM]
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SteveBeaver
Unregistered
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 @ 11:45 AM
"The best way to start it is to adopt a positive mental attitude..."
I love it
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jb92563
Unregistered
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 @ 03:45 PM
Wow, you guys are the best.
I really have few doubts as to what to expect.
Like everything I will check it out carefully and apply all the good advice you have all provided.
The anticipation is killing me.....like a new toy at Christmas.
Ray
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