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Collin
General
Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 711
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 Posted Thursday, April 9, 2009 @ 04:06 PM
Hello,
April 16th http://toddscanopies.com/ will have my spare canopy to copy. So if you need a canopy give Todd a call. I also am going to have Todd make a sport canopy (open).
954-579-0874
BSILVER05@aol.com
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Collin Gyenes
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Bob Grimstead
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
Registered: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 2029
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Posted Thursday, April 9, 2009 @ 09:10 PM
The big question of course is what will they cost?
And what would be the cost of shipping (as slowly as you like) two canopies to England.
Yours, Bob
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Donald
Command Sergeant Major
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 489
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Posted Friday, April 10, 2009 @ 08:16 AM
It may be the big question but it's not the only question. I'd quite like a new canopy for my RF3 but I want one that has the original profile when seen from the side. I want that for both headroom and the appearance of the aircraft. If I could be assured that this was the case, and I would want photographic evidence, then I'd modify Bob's question by upping the quantity to 3.
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Collin
General
Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 711
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Posted Friday, April 10, 2009 @ 09:31 PM
Hello,
The canopy I sent is a original. Todd can copy it and he also can add some head room.
Images below Dann Parks modified using Photo shop it is the std canopy backwards.
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Collin Gyenes
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Bob Grimstead
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia or West Sussex, England
Registered: Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 2029
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Posted Sunday, April 12, 2009 @ 01:06 AM
I ask this because it looks like we're re-inventing the wheel here.
Yes, my last quote from EIS for a delivered original RF4D canopy with side window and foam surround was around 2,400 euros (so probably at least 2,400 pounds today). That's exorbitant!
But Eugenio has had some excellent canopies made by a company in Munich. I've seen his and it's identical with the originals, and has excellent optical qualities. The price for the last batch was 450 euros each, but not including the side window, foam surround (10 euros) or delivery
Will Todd's canopies be in any way cheaper or better?
Why should he need to go to all the trouble and expense of making a mould, when there is already one made in Munich?
Yours, Bob
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Donald
Command Sergeant Major
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Registered: Jan 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 489
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Posted Sunday, April 12, 2009 @ 09:58 AM
Bob, on the recommendation of Patrick Faucheron elsewhere in this forum I contacted Weiss Plastics [aircraft@plexiweiss.de] and had a rather drawn out email exchange which was ultimately unsatisfactory. In the end I photoshopped the photograph they sent me of their RF4 canopy on to a photograph of my aircraft the results of which you can see here: 
Although not taken from quite the same angle they are clearly not the same profile.
Perhaps Eugenio did not use Weiss as a supplier although again from posts elsewhere in this forum I thought he had. Maybe Eugenio would shed some light on all of this.
[Edit by Donald on Sunday, April 12, 2009 @ 10:01 AM]
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eugenio
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 294
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Posted Sunday, April 12, 2009 @ 11:45 AM
Weiss plastic has my moulds that, as Bob says, have the original RF3 and RF4 shape, since it has been done copying an original RF spare glazing from Starplast. For the price you should ask directly to Weiss Plastic, but it's surely more than 450 Euros. It should be around 700 Euros without side windows, and the sole windows and rails are about 150 Euros.
All prices ex works without taxes. In any case is surely less than 2400 Euros. You can also check with Starplast, who still produces the canopies in France. When you need something at Weiss Plastic contact Mario Balhouli, my reference there (mario.bahlouli@plexiweiss.de).
In any case a new mould in Europe is not worth the time spent, but it would be good a mould in the US, just to save on shipping and export taxes.
Eugenio
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dannparks
Sergeant Major
Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 391
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Posted Wednesday, April 15, 2009 @ 00:27 AM
Todd doesn't use molds, he blows the plastic somehow to the shape required. There are probably some limits on the kind of shapes that can be created, but he makes canopies for RVs, and lots of other planes, so I'm sure he can do something nice. But we won't know till he makes a couple and we see them. He can also make them with tinted plastic.
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Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1
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Lutz Pritschow
Private First Class
Gender: Male
Location: Weinolsheim, Germany
Registered: Apr 2009
Status: Offline
Posts: 17
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Posted Thursday, April 23, 2009 @ 01:51 PM
Hi
I'm the new guy. I have been flying for over 20 years and after moving to Germany some time ago, converted my ppl, joined a local flying club, and discovered the joys of flying a motorglider (SF25 to be precise). I have an affinity for French wood built designs and am on the lookout for an affordable motorglider. I have never considered a Fournier, simply due to cost reasons. We have a RF5 standing in our hanger and that certainly is a beautiful plane.
I have just recently found this forum, and after logging in discovered this thread on canopies. First off let me say that Todd from Todds Canopies is a sterling guy. A Jodel builder and myself ordered canopies for our projects last year.
I had the same problem as described here, apathy and overpriced here in Europe. I think if you aren't ordering for Airbus or such you are just a bother to these companies.
Anyway I sent a drawing to Todd via email, and after a couple of phone conversations he was ready to make our canopies. He also suggested making me two canopies, one in a thicker material, and the other a little thinner to give me more flexibility. The total cost for the two canopies ran to around $500. The guy building the Jodel also ordered two, so we had four canopies shipped by sea from Fort Lauderdale to Bremen in Germany. The shipping ran to around $250 so still a steal if you divide it by four canopies. Unfortunately the shipping company failed to mention a couple of the costs once the container got to Germany. Long story short, we ended up with another €808 to pay for unloading the container, opening the container, finding the container, customs, duty and excise. And so a little poorer, but richer in experience ends the sage of two chaps who wanted to save some money on canopies.
My tip if you want to go down this road.
1. Try and get a frame, canopy or mould to Todd (I see in this thread that someone might have already done so) He will make you a canopy on the basis of a drawing, but I had to do a lot of cutting to get mine to fit, and came up short by about 8cm. This was not Todds fault, he did the best he could on the basis of my drawings. The fact that he was even prepared to do so says a lot.
2. If in Europe get as many orders together as possible, to save on costs.
3. For the price Todd quotes get two or even three made. If you can be sure that they will fit, then his prices are unbeatable. Also he is willing to work with you and very friendly. But make sure that you get the shipping company to tell you about all! the costs involved. They will of course blame the port authority, customs etc but try check it out before hand.
Finally I am not in any way affiliated with Todd, but during my building I have had to deal with European firms on occasion, and after that it was a pleasure dealong with someone like him. If anyone has any more questions I am more than happy to answer them.
[Edit by Lutz Pritsehow on Sunday, September 19, 2010 @ 03:41 PM]
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Thursday, April 23, 2009 @ 07:05 PM
Hey guys,
We ordered a tinted canopy from Todd's, the picture he sent us also makes it look a little taller for headroom.
Sam
[Edit by Sam M. on Thursday, April 23, 2009 @ 07:05 PM]
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Collin
General
Gender: Male
Location: McMinnville. Oregon
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 711
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Posted Tuesday, April 28, 2009 @ 11:58 AM
Hello,
I talked to Todd today. $360 the for std version or 1" head added headroom version. He ships worldwide.
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Tuesday, April 28, 2009 @ 04:16 PM
mine shipped today
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dannparks
Sergeant Major
Gender: Male
Location: Parkside Airpark, Battle Ground, WA
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 391
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Posted Wednesday, April 29, 2009 @ 03:12 PM
Please post pictures, and let us all know how it works out.
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Dann Parks • RF4D #4051 N2188 • now flying!
Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/111628310900713778468/RF4D_N2188?noredirect=1
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 @ 06:24 PM
Canopy's here, Pictures will come tonight
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 @ 10:35 PM
Sorry guys,
We are bending the canopy frame back to shape, it was bent over the years. we just started drilling holes and trimming the canopy. I will post pictures when i remember to bring the camera home!
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Jorgen
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 835
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Posted Thursday, May 7, 2009 @ 03:05 PM
Hi Sam,
I´ve noticed that cracks often start at the screws around the canopy frame on RF 5 b SE-UDI, which has the original type of Fournier canopy. However, RF 4 SE-XST has a custom made carbon-fiber canopyframe were the canopy seems to be glued/moulded into the frame, quite neatly done although I can´t figure out how it´s done and by whom. Just figured that might be an alternative for mounting your new canopy?
Take 5(b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen
[Edit by Jorgen on Thursday, May 7, 2009 @ 03:15 PM]
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eugenio
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 294
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Posted Friday, May 8, 2009 @ 11:59 AM
I found very effective to use the original canopy frame, glueing the plexi with polyurethane sealant (Sikaflex FC11) the same kind of sealant used to seal car's body or to glue-on car's windshields. The finish of the mating surface is done with glass reinforced poliester putty, in this way you obtain a "glider like" canopy that perfectly mate the fuselage without misalignments and without screws. Just be aware not to let the frame touch the plexy, because there you can start a crack. Mine has only a litthe crack from the canopy handle to one of the window's screw because the haldle's slot in the plexy is too tight and plexy and handle touch each other.
I did the job on all my RF's and I can assure it works.
ciao
Eugenio
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Jorgen
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 835
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Posted Friday, May 8, 2009 @ 04:07 PM
Non voglio dire qualcosa precipitevolissimevolmente,
but one of these days I hope to post a question or suggestion that Eugenio won´t be able to answer directly of the top of his head! Thanks for yet another enlightment.
Take 5(b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen
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eugenio
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 294
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Posted Tuesday, May 12, 2009 @ 12:58 PM
There are lots of things that I don't know, but I also did a lot of experience since model building in the early '70. I transferred much of this experience into mantaining and repairing fourniers. (I wish to remember everybody that Fourniers, like all wood airplanes and gliders are big models) I did also a lot of experience in building my (still to be finished) RF5, for which I had to do all hardware from drawings (not so easy).
In any case the procedure used from me has been used successfully also by other people, since I found an article from a homebuilders (I don't remember if Australian or French) describing the same procedure and using the same (incredible) sealant used by me.
But if you don't want me to share my (little) knowledge and my (lots of) errors I can avoid to write anymore.
ciao
Eugenio
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Jorgen
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 835
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Posted Tuesday, May 12, 2009 @ 01:32 PM
Caro Eugenio, ho scerzato naturalmente!
I am sure that I am not the only one to enjoy your careful and always valuable comments which has helped me (and other pilots that I know) enormously. Keep up the good work and I hope for a next Gap meet so I can buy you a Beer/bottle of wine/café 
Take 5(b) just 4 fun/ Jörgen
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eugenio
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Str. Val S. Martino inferiore 133/7 I - 10131 Torino ITALY
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 294
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Posted Wednesday, May 13, 2009 @ 04:52 PM
Me too joked
Well, next international meeting will be in 2010 probably in Cannes or Nice, it will be for the 50 years of the first RF. It should be at the end of may. I think Michel already took contacts with the authorities for the planning. Surely as soon as he'll have a fixed date and location he'll tell to the whole Fournier world.
Hope to meet all of you and obviously every CFI member is always welcome in Envie
ciao
Eugenio
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Thursday, May 14, 2009 @ 11:43 PM
Flew it today, Flys the same maybe a tad slower then with the stock canopy. It was a pain getting it to fit, since the new canopy is alot more of a bubble then the stock canopy, it bubbles out to the sides and gives you more head room. we had to heat up the bottom of the canopy with a heat strip then bend it and make it fit flush with the fuselage. with out bending it it would hit at an angle and not allow the canopy to close all the way. after much trimming and grinding we got it to fit, we also re painted the canopy frame and put new weather seal on it.
[Edit by Sam M. on Thursday, May 14, 2009 @ 11:44 PM]
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Sam M.
First Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Santa Paula, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Posts: 228
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Posted Friday, May 15, 2009 @ 01:36 AM
lets try it again.
[Edit by Sam M. on Friday, May 15, 2009 @ 01:37 AM]
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bill.tugnett
Private
Gender: Male
Location: Bathurst, New South Wales, Australia
Registered: Mar 2024
Status: Offline
Posts: 4
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Posted Thursday, March 21, 2024 @ 02:04 AM
Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum & this is my first post. I live in Bathurst, Australia, approx 200K west of Sydney. I fly with the Bathurst Soaring Club & am about to commence a 50 year survey on an RF4D (VH-XOS, SN 4-138). XOS hasn't flown for two years as a result of a broken canopy. A repair is part of the survey but ultimately a new canopy is required. So my first request of the Forum is to update me please on the availability of new canopies? Thanks, Bill
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Markku
Master Sergeant
Gender: Male
Location: Kouvola, Finland, EFWB
Registered: Oct 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 167
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Posted Tuesday, March 26, 2024 @ 03:31 AM
Hello Bill
I ordered my cabin from Plexiweiss, some 12 years ago, you can ask them, I presume that Eugenio know the situation better, if there are other sources.
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bill.tugnett
Private
Gender: Male
Location: Bathurst, New South Wales, Australia
Registered: Mar 2024
Status: Offline
Posts: 4
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Posted Wednesday, April 3, 2024 @ 06:12 PM
Thanks Markku. I contacted Plexiweiss, but they advise they cannot supply the canopy. They had a mould, but discarded it as it was in poor condition. Looks like we'll be flying with a patched up canopy. Kind regards, Bill
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Jorgen
Captain
Gender: Male
Location: Lund, Sweden
Registered: Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Posts: 835
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Posted Friday, April 26, 2024 @ 03:27 AM
Hello Bill, Markku,
sorry to be slow to answer and I confess slow to check the forum but still love the reference library for fixing Fournier stuff that it is. I concur that Plexiweiss does not seem to be able to make Fourneir canopies anymore, I think "Starplast" in France might be able to but I have been in touch with Marco at "MT Aeroparts in Germany that is in the process of scanning and 3D printing moulds for the original RF 4 canopy and hopefully also the "Bob Reece"-type canopy. The latter is a canopy with a slightly lower front profile based of a K13 that was made in the UK by the late Bob Reece. Many UK RF 4s have that type canopy (including G-AVLZ) and personally I prefer the looks of that so I'm hoping to get one of those made. I'm flying "open" now (thanks James for letting me borrow your cabriolet canopy) but it is kind of cold and robs the 4 of some performance.
info@mtaeroparts.de is the mailadress.
May the 4s be with you/ Jörgen
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